Episode 19
Blind Mississippi Morris
Blind Mississippi Morris is that rare kind of musician. Master of the Delta Blues and virtuoso of the harmonica, he is the King of Beale Street and anywhere he performs. Not only a unique Conversation In Music with a great artist, this is a special look into the origins of his music making and why his message to the world is so important and crucial now. I know that my life is forever blessed by his music making. You will never feel the same after experiencing his supreme gift.
Find out more at www.michaelshapiro.com
Morris' website: www.blindmississippimorris.com
Transcript
Michael Shapiro:
Welcome to Interplay, this is Michael Shapiro, your host. And today I have a dear friend, directly from Memphis, Tennessee, Blind Mississippi Morris. How are you doing, sir, today?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
I'm doing fine, what about yourself?
Michael Shapiro:
Well, up here in New York, we're missing you. We're missing coming down to the Blue City Cafe, and hearing the best blues I've ever heard from anyone, anywhere.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Wow, that's a big compliment, you know.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, there is only one Blind Mississippi Morris. I, I will tell you, well, I don't know, Mr. Cummings, it may be three years ago when I came down, uh, to for a performance at the University of Memphis, it may be four, I'm not, time's passing as it were.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes, so fast, so fast.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes, sir. And I went, we went down to the Blue City Cafe, because I had wanted to hear you, and I knew of your fame, and I knew that you're the greatest blues singer in the world, and I had to go hear you. So we walked into the Blue City Cafe, we walked into this Blue City Cafe, and there you were. And you started singing, with that great guitarist, and that great bass guitarist, and I think Dalian Russell was on drums. Oh my heavens. And that was... in the words of my father, Sam, who was in the jazz world in the 40s, "You sent me, sir. You absolutely sent me."
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Wow. Thank you.
Michael Shapiro:
Now let's talk about the blues, because in my mind, as an American composer and musician, conductor, I am totally amazed by the genius of what you present when you're on Beale Street, or anywhere else, in Nashville, or on national TV, and movies, wherever, doing your kind of blues. People ask you this, but I know you've had a very interesting life, and I'm just curious, where are your blues from?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
My blues is from Louisiana, is where my folks originally come from, Shreveport. But I happen to be born in Clarksdale, Mississippi.
Michael Shapiro:
That's where your name comes from, Blind Mississippi Morris?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Absolutely. Well, a lot of people, from me playing, you know, around, you know, different places, they didn't think I was blind, you know. And they'd be throwing up hands, and all kind of signs and, you know, stuff. And sooner or later I said, "I have to figure out a way to let them know I can't see." So I put it in my name. Blind Mississippi Morris, so we won't have no misunderstanding, 'cause people can get that mixed up with you, you know, kind of conceited or stuck up, and that's not me at all.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, that's, that's not you at all. I can say that. But I, I'm curious about the origins of your music, because your music is very personal. And it is from your heart, and from your body. I know the way you move, the way you move to music is just breathtaking. And it is integral, it's organic, it's part of who you are. But tell, tell us, tell your audience, where did your music come from? I know it comes from Mississippi, but explain what that means musically, can you?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well, music is, safe instance, it's, it's who you are, where you come from, what you made of, what you've been through as a kid, you know. How you wanted music to sound, what you heard, you know. And basically, my music came from my family, Robert and Mary Diggs. You know, um, they was born in Shreveport, Louisiana, but they brought the blues to Mississippi, you know, playing all around Jackson, and Canton, Mississippi, Clarksdale, Memphis, God, all over the world. Um, so I wind up, you know, they start playing with the Mississippi Sheiks, Memphis Jug Band, that type of thing. And as a kid, that's all I heard, you know, especially, it brought about a lot of good times. When you done had hard times, probably all the summer, and God, through the winter, you know, you're doing canning, uh, you know, do stuff like that, family had a hard time. They tried to keep the kids from feeling it, you know. But you know, all this is part of my makeup, of my music. I tried to emulate, let people know exactly where I came from, and how thankful I am to be here today. You know, to be able to play and still be of somewhat help, you know. I think I'm doing pretty good.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, it's a blessing, because your music is totally a blessing. I'm curious about harmonica. You picked up the harmonica young. And people call, people call it a harp, too, there's a great harp player. Which I, I find fascinating. Where does the word harp come from for harmonica?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well, it's got so many—well, like a harp in the string family, it's got so many strings, like the guts of a piano.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
And then you got, if you just strip the harmonica down, it's like a comb. You know, a lot of people, you know, they didn't have harmonicas, man, back in the day, but they could take, like, school paper, a sheet of paper, and put it over a comb, a piece of plastic, and play it like a harmonica, or a kazoo.
Michael Shapiro:
Right.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yeah.
Michael Shapiro:
But so, uh, you have been written about, in a lot of press, as one of the top five harp players slash harmonica players in the world. And I can vouch for that, because I've heard you live on several occasions, I've worked with you. You're a virtuoso, you, you're like the Heifetz of the harmonica, there's nothing like I've ever heard. Now, you, you, you play harmonica and you sing.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
And you tap—and you're a rhythm man, too, because you tap your foot real loud.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Right.
Michael Shapiro:
And you move, you move your body and your head back and forth, and it all happens simultaneously. I noticed something about your, your, your harmonica playing, which is really interesting. You sing like you play the harmonica. Did you ever think of that?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well, you know, it's so much to be happening when you play it, it's, you enjoy it so much, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. When you play your music, and you feel your music, man, it's like nothing you ever, you ever had, man. It makes you feel so good, you know. It makes you smile. I mean, you can be feeling down, man, I grab my harmonica, man, it's like medicine, you know? I feel so good when I play.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, you put it across, because everybody wants to be with you. I did notice also under your—you wear a, on your chest, your harmonicas.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Right.
Michael Shapiro:
And you did tell me when we were together, that you go through a good number of harmonicas a year, don't you?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Michael Shapiro:
Where, these, yeah.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
It's the way I bend harmonica licks.
Michael Shapiro:
Uh-huh.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
I make them just about sing. You know, like, like a voice would. 'Cause music is voices. You know, and I try to explain that to people. Music is a voice. Whatever it comes out of, a horn, or guitar, or piano, whatever it comes from, it's a voice.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes, sir. And it comes from breath.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
And your breath...
Blind Mississippi Morris:
That's life. That's, yeah, that's life.
Michael Shapiro:
That's life, right?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
Let's talk about life. Let's talk about life in blues. The subject matter of blues is typically somebody, often, going through some hard times. Not always. Not always.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Not always.
Michael Shapiro:
Yeah. Talk about some of the sto—tell, would you talk about some of the stories you tell. Give an ex—some examples, please.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well, say for instance, you know, if you came up on a plantation, you know, that's, that's a whole different life from the streets in a city.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes, sir.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
'Cause everybody in that little town knows everybody, everybody basically got the same. You know, unless you the straw boss, you know, and you get better opportunities, and things of that sort, you know, back on plantation days. You didn't have to work as hard, you just watch everybody else supposed to be working.
Michael Shapiro:
Did you do that as a little kid? Any of that?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
As a little kid, I was kind of like a water boy at one point. 'Cause my folks, you know, they go pick cotton, chop cotton, and stuff like that. And by noontime, I had to have the water at the end of the row, which was about, I know every bit of a mile long, some of them sometimes a mile and a half, two miles long. They made me a wagon to get between the rows, and just pull it. 'Til I get there.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
And I know I'm there 'cause they're gonna go to hollering, "Hey, hey, hey!" You know, they'd be so glad to get that water.
Michael Shapiro:
You had to go to a stream, or did you get it from a spell?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Oh, we had a pump.
Michael Shapiro:
You had a pump.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yeah, you had to pump that water, you had to prime that pump and pump it in that tin bucket that you used to get lard in. They made me a little wagon with little iron wheels, and I could pull it, and I could get on down through there, take my time. By twelve noon, I'm there.
Michael Shapiro:
Interesting. Now, people don't realize that when somebody like you sings the blues, that's singing from life, aren't you? Aren't you singing from life, from your life experiences, when you start singing blues?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Life experience. And that's why the blues today don't sound like the blues of yesterday. The kids today, they don't have no blues. They can wear shoes cost anywhere from a hundred bucks to a thousand dollars.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
My God, that's, that's, that feed a whole family for a year or better. You know, back then.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes, sir.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You got three pairs of shoes for five bucks.
Michael Shapiro:
Mmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yeah, three pairs of shoes for five dollars back then, and you was so happy. And that had to last you a long time. And if they lasted you a long time, you passed them down.
Michael Shapiro:
So the music comes out of those experiences then, right out of them.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Those experiences. You know, they got nice tables to sit at. We had to sit on the floor. Nice chairs to sit in, we sit on old buckets, you know, like those uh, big lard buckets and stuff like that. You didn't, weren't too many chairs around, it's a few cane bottom chairs, you know, but they was limited, you know, they was in, most of the people done claimed them chairs, he's sitting on a bucket, man. And if you didn't have a bucket to sit on, you sit on the floor, it ain't gonna hurt. You know.
Michael Shapiro:
You know, when I hear you sing, this all comes out. There's just no question about it. Um, my dad used to wear—use a word that I used before, called "sent," S-E-N-T.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Sent, yes.
Michael Shapiro:
That sent, that you know, jazz men used that, used to use that. And the idea is, certain music sends one. It puts one in a different place. You know? And I could say that the music of Blind Mississippi Morris sends me to a different place. Uh, um, now, let's talk about rhythm. When I was listening to you, yeah, it's an interesting concept, because rhythm is different than breath in a way. How do you, what's the place of rhythm in your blues making, Blind Mississippi?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well, a lot of people, you know, I think, personally, if you don't have a soul, you don't have rhythm. That's my opinion. You know, you gotta have a soul. You gotta have love, you gotta have understanding, you gotta be caring.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes, sir.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You gotta acknowledge everything that God created around you.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
That's where rhythm come from. Everything works and walks to a rhythm, fly to a rhythm, grow to a rhythm.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You know, the wind blow, you watch a tree sway, you know?
Michael Shapiro:
Right.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
All those things.
Michael Shapiro:
Now, when you're creating a song, when you're working on it, does the rhythmic pattern develop in the piece?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well, first you have to have an idea what you're writing about. Whether it's fiction, or, or actually something going on, and you're trying to tell it in a way that, you know, you can't tell it, you know, I don't believe in music like the young people all, people writing it today, they use all kind of vulgarity and, you know, a lot of words you normally wouldn't use.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Back in our day. Weren't allowed even on the radio.
Michael Shapiro:
No.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You know, now they can say just about virtually anything they want.
Michael Shapiro:
What happens?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
But, you know, but when you're writing a piece, if you compose it, you try to reach the heart of what you trying to get the world to hear. You already hear it. But you gotta figure out a way to make everybody out there hear it.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You know, and everybody don't listen the same, everybody don't feel the same things about different songs. You know, even though you wrote it, and you get it out there, you know what you wrote about. But somebody else hear that song, they say, "Oh man, he talking about, man, oh man, quitting his job," you know? And you talking 'bout you ain't even got a job.
Michael Shapiro:
Mmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
So, you, you know, it's a thing, you have to be able to relate to people, who you're writing for.
Michael Shapiro:
No question about it. Um, what are your favorite subjects to sing about?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Life itself.
Michael Shapiro:
Be specific.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
When you, when you look at the beginning, when you was a child, you never knew all the things, 'cause your parents never let you know, 'cause they didn't want you to, you know, uh, know the hardship that you was going through.
Michael Shapiro:
Yes.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Say for instance, it was seven of us, in one room.
Michael Shapiro:
Wow.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
In Clarksdale, Mississippi, at 360 South Aquino. We live right up over the Hamburger Cafe. And there was a lady by the name of Miss Clara, they call her "Puddin'." And she always looked out for, you know, the mothers that had a lot of kids.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
And when the people would leave, and they'd have cooked a lot of food, and she would holler for us to come down and eat, not only us, a lot of the kids, and tell them the food was gone for free. You know, so whoever she is, I know she's in heaven. You know.
Michael Shapiro:
Beautiful, beautiful.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
'Cause everybody then, versus now, would give you something to write about. Everybody loved one another back then.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You know, and I bring that love with me today.
Michael Shapiro:
You do.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Wherever I go. I, I call people out to sing and play with me, and all those things. But the main thing, the love for one another is the key, that we don't have today. That's where all the killing and all the, the things, negative things happening all around us today. See, you left the farm, and you left all that love, 'cause everybody had the same, everybody was suffering the same. But you get in the city, people find ways to get away from their poverty, but they forget all about the ones that came with you that's still in poverty.
Michael Shapiro:
Yeah, I understand.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
They don't look back. They keep straight ahead. They don't care 'bout nobody. If you're not out of their household, out of their family, or in their circle, they don't care.
Michael Shapiro:
So this is what you sing, this is what you sing about. This is what you sing about.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
That's what I sing about.
Michael Shapiro:
It's about, it's about loss, don't you talk, you're talking about loss now. Missing, missing something in our lives.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes. Yes. That unity. That love, that caring. You know, people looking out for one another, making sure everybody in the community had exactly what they need to make it to the next minute, or the next day.
Michael Shapiro:
So when I hear the blues, and I know where the blues come from, because you've told me, you inspire me to write a piece, which I wrote, for band, which you heard, when you came, when you came to the University of Memphis.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
Which I call Old Mississippi Sings the Blues, which is based on your themes, and I wrote it for band, and Albert Nguyen did it with the University of Memphis Wind Ensemble, brilliantly. And we had, we had a Blind Mississippi Morris concert, which you, you performed with the students, which was the most magnificent thing.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes. Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
You have an expression that you use, which is "Stay a while." You use it a lot.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
What do you mean by "Stay a while?"
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well, until you do, you don't really understand what life is all about.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You know, you can run through things, you can't see the forest for the trees, I know you heard that a million times.
Michael Shapiro:
Yeah.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
And what they mean by that, you can be standing up in the forest, but not see the trees.
Michael Shapiro:
Right.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Troubles and dying, and everything can be all around you, it looks good to you. 'Cause you don't see it.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You don't feel it, you can't smell it, you can't taste it, you know?
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
But when you come down south, people tell you, "Oh man, have you had some of that good 'cold water'?" You think they talking 'bout H2O, no they not.
Michael Shapiro:
What are they talking 'bout?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
They talking 'bout some of that good homemade whiskey.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, Tennessee's famous for it.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes, Mississippi also. Yeah. But it had to be under cover in Mississippi.
Michael Shapiro:
You got some great brewers down in there.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yeah, you do. It's been passed on just like Tennessee and Kentucky, you know.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, is, is the blues passed on, this is an oral tradition, isn't it?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes. It's passed on, but ain't too many can sing it, 'cause most of the people that, I tell you, that can play the blues, they done got tripped up by some of the city things that's going on, like crack...
Michael Shapiro:
Mmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
And all these different drugs out there, they go in the city, or somebody from the city bringing it in, they try it, and they loses everything.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, it's, it's oppression. It's just another form of oppression, and making money for certain people, and robbing, robbing from the poor. It's happened for thousands of years, and the issue right now is we have to stop it. Part of the role of stopping it, in my view, is outrage and acting, and part of the role, part of the role I think in stopping it is what you do.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
Because I think, in many ways, you're like a prophet, if I may say so.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Thank you.
Michael Shapiro:
Well you are, because you're bringing the truth to people. And what's the truth? I mean, we've been through suffering, all of us.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
We've been through hardship, all of us. It's a pretty common experience.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
People have, get, get through different kinds of suffering. I did not grow up in one room with my brother and my parents. It was a small apartment in Brooklyn. My father was a state office worker, it wasn't a rich family. My grandmother was, came from a peasant background in Poland, you know. This is hard, hard stuff.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Oh yeah.
Michael Shapiro:
And it's common. So the commonality of it is something that we just have to remember, don't you think?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
And that's unity. Unity all around the world. Whatever you come from, poverty is still the same. Suffering is still the same.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
But getting along, and being able to understand your poverty with this person's poverty, is the problem.
Michael Shapiro:
Why, why is there empathy coming from your music, and empathy from a lot of people, but then there's some people that just don't have empathy. Why don't they have empathy, why don't they care?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Well they don't have conviction, a lot of people are out there playing, they're playing for the sake of money.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
That's not me. I play for the love of music, because I have a story to tell, you might not can read it through my words, or, but I'm sure you can feel it, you know?
Michael Shapiro:
Yes, sir.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You can feel my music, you feel my music.
Michael Shapiro:
But don't you feel you have to do it? I have to write music. I can't live if I don't write music.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You have to write it. You have to tell a story. You have to let people know where you came from. Why you singing the blues. The message you trying to deliver. 'Cause a lot of people don't read the Bible.
Michael Shapiro:
Mmm.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
And everybody think that blues is ugly and evil, it's not.
Michael Shapiro:
Oh no.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Blues is a testimony, a story. Just like sitting up in a courtroom.
Michael Shapiro:
Mm-hmm. And to end, to end our wonderful conversation with Blind Mississippi Morris, I have to say that you tell a story like no one else.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Thank you so much.
Michael Shapiro:
I've heard the great symphony orchestras, the Berlin Philharmonic, New York Philharmonic, Chicago Symphony, you name it, I've been to the great opera houses, been to La Scala, the Metropolitan Opera, you name it.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Wow.
Michael Shapiro:
I've been to all these places, because I perform in a lot of these places. And I've heard great performers over the years, but you're with them. You're totally with them. You say, you say the great images of life, and you present it in the most wonderfully warm, compassionate way.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
I tell you what, before I get off the air,
Michael Shapiro:
Yes, sir.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
I want everybody to know I'm trying to write a book. Oh. I'm trying to do a new album, and a video, and it's gonna take money, to get round this big old world, and go to these places, take these pictures, I gotta get photographers, and all these different things. And I gotta travel. And I'm asking for a little help from the community, on my PayPal. It's, "Come on, and drop a few, few, few dollars in there, hey, it'll be well worth it."
Michael Shapiro:
Thank you.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
You know, and I'm, I want to write this book before I get out of this place, 'cause I think I got a better, better place to be, man, than this crazy place, you know.
Michael Shapiro:
Well, as you would say, stay a little while, alright?
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Stay a little while. Yes. Stay a little while.
Michael Shapiro:
Stay a little while. Blind Mississippi Morris, thank you so much for being on Interplay.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Hey, my pleasure, Mr. Shapiro.
Michael Shapiro:
Of a people of your caliber. My god.
Blind Mississippi Morris:
Come on.
Michael Shapiro:
It's been wonderful having you. This is Michael Shapiro with Blind Mississippi Morris on Interplay: Conversations in Music.