Alexander Mickelthwate

I'm very well. Very well. Thank you for inviting me. Happy little diversion of the COVID everyday.

Well, in 2021, yeah, Oklahoma City. So, um, first of all, yes, there is an orchestra in Oklahoma City. Um, it's not just cowboys and Wild West. It's actually a really fun place, I must say, and it's one of those hidden gems for me personally. I was 12 years in Winnipeg before, also a prairie town. And, um, it's one of those—I feel like nowadays, I love New York City, I lived in New York City, like LA, but I really feel like those smaller, mid-sized American cities, they have a resurgence. Um, people love moving back, and, uh, it's international, I feel, but small, a little smaller, that one can do things that one might not be able to do in a huge city. So, I personally really, really enjoy it in the first place. Uh, as a music director, yes, I mean, of course, we are on the one hand almost like a film director. We prepare the music, the film, the material way before the first shoot, the first rehearsal. So, this—lots of work happens way before, then, of course, the regular rehearsals, and then the concerts. Um, it's just the pinnacle, and here the difference, of course, with every other director is that we participate actively in the play and guide, in a way, the whole thing. As if you're a football coach, you know, not on the sidelines, you're running with the players on the field. I'm running. I'm not making a sound, though, but still running with the players on the field. But this is really part—just part of it, of course, and, uh, most part is, uh, behind the scenes, then, uh, fundraising and having anti-actions in the community with tons of people connect—trying to connect, connect, connect. And that's something I really love to do, and again, which is nice in a city size of Oklahoma. So, this is in a nutshell all I'm doing.

Yeah, that's huge. I mean, for me, uh, where to start? So, let me go back to Winnipeg, to my time in Winnipeg. Um, we had a very strong native, uh, First Nations population. We had a very strong, uh, Ukrainian population, Filipino commu— um, population, Mennonites. So, just from this basis alone, I enjoyed going into those communities, trying to create relations, artistic relations, and then putting something on the stage with those communities together. So, this is one way of thinking of outreach, of creating something new, coming—bringing the— the cultures together and boom, there we are. Another one, of course, is just simply going to—the the— the most common one is going to other museums, other arts organizations, and having outreach there. Easy.

That's very well said. Yes, I agree.

So, what we did, um—let— I mean, I'm only two years in Oklahoma City, so I can't talk a lot of things there. With museums, what we did in Winnipeg was very fun. We had one—we had this, uh, a contemporary new music festival every January. And here, we did several collaborations with museums where one was, for example, a chamber evening where the, uh, ensembles were allowed to go into the vault, the famous mysterious vault of a museum where they open the doors. And there were the— the musicians and the— that had picked a composer first of all, each musician had to pick a specific composer, so they knew the work, the music, and then they went in the vault and picked a piece of art that would work with their piece of music. And then we had like, I think, five or six different little chamber groups. And then they got those paintings upstairs, placed them nicely, and we had the audience in the middle in a way on movable chairs, and then they always turned to the direction of the new piece of music and piece of art. That was one way of connecting. It was really, actually, exciting.

Well, that's always this big question, in how far that is direct relationship. I— I want to toot my horn, I guess. Toot! I don't know. I mean, it— in— if for a while— I mean, in Winnipeg, we— our— we said— our— actually, we— we realized our classical audience was younger than our pops audience, which is also more normal nowadays, I think. So, um, but, yes, there was a— there is definitely something where we opened the doors to people and funders, let's say, also, that got excited with different repertoire and with those kind of things that never— otherwise they wouldn't have come for Beethoven. No offense, no offense, Mr. Beethoven.

The Green Umbrella series.

You mean the contemporary series or—?

So, well, there are different angles to that. So, one is, uh, as I said, uh, with different, um, racial communities, right? Different, um, communities. And in Oklahoma, I connected with, for example, the East Indian community, which was very unusual. Very nice. So, what I did was, I um programmed the um the concert music of the Life of Pi, which was composed by, uh, a Canadian composer, Michael— it will come to me— and Life of Pi, obviously, is the story of this little Indian boy in the boat with a tiger crossing the Pacific Ocean. And we had to hire, actually, a um, uh, Indian, East Indian singer, Bombay Jayashri, and had three other Indian musicians from North America come to Oklahoma, so I had this little group. Nice. But the whole point was to connect with the East Indian community. So, um, that was the fun part. So, I went to the university and to other—to the temple there, and we had this, uh, big event beforehand with like 120 or something East Indian in their saris come up. It was so beautiful. And they, I mean, they never came to a concert before. So, that was— recon— in our regular masterworks, like rec— rec— regular classics paired with Debussy, La Mer, and paired with, um, Britten, Four Sea Interludes. I mean, very obvious in a way, but still, fun. And, uh, yes, so, at least there we had a audience in the hall that had never been before, and now I am happy—I'm friends with several of those, and I see them again. So, this is— this is like one idea. The other one is really the whole that kind of crossover, Phil Glass-ish, um, music that you were alluding to, I think, that, uh, uh, Jonny Greenwood's— I mean, certain composers that are not associated with your regular classical audience. Yeah. Um, and that I am also putting into the season in— well, in Oklahoma, for sure. And here now, talking with certain people that, again, that heard about that, that are not interested in the symphony orchestra, but they're really interested in Sufjan Stevens, who I didn't know before, but maybe creating a collaboration with this gentleman and an orchestra, or Björk, or Sigur Rós. I mean, co— people that are on the fringe, in a way, and then pair that with Beethoven.

Well, I mean, for me, it's more— I mean, the first question is, or the goal is, to create a relation between, in a way, me and the audience, the audience and me. And I'm saying me, not orchestra, because, I mean, of course, the organization and the audience, but, in the sense, me with being the programmer who comes up with those ideas of having, um, contemporary composers uh, in the— in the— in the— in the— in the season. So, it's more, okay, how do I create a bigger arc that they see, "Ah, okay. First of all, I trust him. It's fun, and um, it's exci— it's interesting. There's always a little angle that is, oh, unexpected, but also familiar." So, as you know, the range, the audience range, goes from, well, everything is there, right? You have to play pieces that were written 300 years ago to nowadays. And make somehow sense of that, (laughs) which is very exciting to figure out how to do.

I do pre-concert lectures, and I do post-concert Q&As, which I started in Oklahoma.

We started a podcast lately, yes, since— since now, (laughs) since COVID hit.

I bet you are.

Well, I mean, here it's— it's— again, I didn't know too much about it. There are so many universities in the Oklahoma area, and, um, most of them are professors and assistant professors, they are actually teaching, and are— (clears throat) really, really good. And, um, so, there is that angle. Uh, now, from moving them, well, as— as we coach, I guess, you stretch, you co— you excite them with a— with the right concerts, with something very exciting, with projects that are up— out unusual, and that puts their um well, their— their um skill set up there on a new level. But overall, it's like, um... Well, actually, how to create, how to move an orchestra level upwards, that's always the big question. For me, it has to do with recording, and possibly, um, at some point, uh, moving, uh, playing in other places like, uh, moving the— having the orchestra play, I don't know, in DC or something, in New York. So, to move to a place, uh, where they have to concentrate even more (laughs) and see what we can do under those moments of pressure. And then, oh my gosh, and then remember that, have this auditory memory. That's where we always want to get back to. And then, slowly, create this sense of, "Oh, yeah. That pianissimo was softer, and we remember that. Let's create that same balanced pianissimo now, the next one." And suddenly, you have this in a— in the collective memory, and so you create this collective memory and go up and up, uh, higher and higher.

(Laughs) Well, I mean, it's more the recording by itself is— it's— it's what it is. It's more to find in— in— in Winnipeg, I tried to find a niche where we could excel internationally, right? That was the idea. Same with Oklahoma. Is there a place for Oklahoma City to compete internationally? Why not? Yeah, there is (laughs). And so, that is based on programming, mhm, and as you might know, Oklahoma City is the only state in the United States that is Indian territory, First Americans territory, 39 tribes. And, um, completely unique. So, there is a way of creating something for me now that is, first of all, programming-wise, really interesting, but then, okay, well, it makes sense to record it, A, from the back, from the historic background, um, to put something out there for everybody to know about. Um, and then, of course, from the playing style, it's a different thing to— ca— to again, this has goes back to our memory question and skill question, to slowly have the players adapt and be able to remember then how it sounded when it was perfect. And get back to this faster (laughs).

Um, well, as you probably know, very complicated, and no, it's not a— it's not in the daily, it's not like in the BBC that we have a— it's not part of ours, not at all. Yeah, yeah. We have to kind of every time go through it, through the committee, orchestra committee, and um get the funding, etc. Like actually, I think most orchestras in this music— North America.

Um, well, yeah, I mean, I— I can't say too much openly yet. I mean, there are several, of course, record labels, classical record labels, that we are, uh, having conversations with, and I think that's the first start, really. And to have it quite official (laughs). Um, and yeah, to have a real thing going. And of course, not for money or anything, it's not for to sell millions, but really, it's mostly, in this case, for us, but in— with certain composers and directions, I believe that there could be repertoire that in the next 10 years that would be interested, actually, in Germany. Like, American Indian, certain composers and directions, could be very cool.

Um, well, good question. Uh, I just know that like we just did Bruckner, actually had the be— most bizarre, let me— I will answer it, but I had the most bizarre, positively bizarre, uh, thing happen in Oklahoma in, in, in beginning of March. So, it was the last concert we did before COVID hit, okay? Mhm. Last year, I approached two— I mean, I'm trying to do more outreach going into the community, and we went to a— I went to a place, uh, you— the Baptist university, an hour east of Oklahoma, little town, you know, Shawnee, and I talk with them, "Hey, we'd like to come here, these are the possible— possibilities and programs, we do Bruckner, blah, and Beethoven, and the," and they're like, "Oh, yeah, we really would like to— that you to come here with Bruckner." Like, "What?" (Laughs) I mean, Bruckner in general, right, it's like, I mean, I'm worried to do Bruckner anywhere. But they were like, "Yeah, no." So, they were, "No, no, we want the Bruckner." I'm like, "What? Okay." So, we went there with Bruckner's Seventh Symphony. And it was, um, a university, I mean, there is— it was pretty packed, actually, the hall. Got a standing ovation, it was completely insane. It was most— one of— I mean, it was actually, I think, the most bizarre thing ever. Not the contemporary stuff. To Bruckner there and be so appreciated. Anyway, so, Bruckner is extremely spiritual. It's transcending more so than any composer, I think. It's like Mozart, romantic, coming from heaven, minimalism, all combined. And it really goes to the bottom— I mean, to my heart, and I'm like, I don't know, so... I really feel extremely comfortable with it and love it. It's— I think Bruckner 7 and 8, that's how I want to die.

To die, (laughs) please play that music.

Yes (laughs).

Well, okay, so, A, I cannot talk about Third, that's one of the— I have to— yeah, I haven't conducted 3, 8, and 9. Sorry. But I can talk about 4, and, for example, 10th. I did the whole Tenth Symphony in Winnipeg, the Cooke version, which was, uh, musically maybe also one of the top three. The Bruckner and then this one, I couldn't sleep the whole night after that. It was insane. Um, it's very good question, and I— it's— I don't know how to explain it. Um, it's more for me, I guess, in general, and every conductor has a different approach. As I said at the beginning, we have this bizarre job of being the director and then also the performer, or become one of the performers.

So, it is really to become, as an actor, you become the role. Good. Every time, you become that new role. You don't act it, you are it. And in a way, that's really how I feel on my level, every time becoming it, feeling it, so that it's just, I don't know, I'm putting this on—not even on, it's in it, it is. So, with the Bruckner— with the um Mahler 10, it was so at the end that first performance was— I mean, so, it— it is— it, there's a very famous stage director in Germany from the '40s, Felsenstein. Yeah, yeah. Felsenstein.

Oh my God, you're so lucky.

And as I— and as I understand, I mean, he was brilliant. But one part of the brilliance was that he was very practical, that he was with num- numbers, very clearly, gave everybody his place, his role, and you move this way, tuc tuc tuc. Very analytical.

Wow, that's amazing.

Well, I mean, but that's the thing. So, to go into a granular level, granular level, of directing and knowing the— the— the play and the music, and um be— but the point—so, first of all, very, very analytical, very clear, oh, yeah, not musical, in a way. And then, make this so your second language, that it becomes, that it sinks down, and it becomes you, and it becomes fully emotional, but with that granular knowledge of directing. Yeah. I mean, it sounds bizarre, but I think that's really, for me personally, how I approach it. And then with this— but, yeah.

And then with a— so, with the— with the— with the— with the Mahler 10, which is extremely difficult and annoying, (laughs) it's like, "Why, why, why?" But, um, it was to— I mean, that's— that scared, so, whatever, that— that first movement is just to be so clear where you are. It's like almost contemporary music, in a way, right? It's like abstract. It is. And— and, yeah, to really understand, okay, where is it to be then so solid? Um, sorry, my hands are going all over the place. Um, that one can step aside, then trust the orchestra and create this bizarre unity, that also only happens in— in this business of, um, where things fall into place and one is in the zone, that's always then the final goal, right? That's Michael Jordan thing, "I'm in the zone," and you don't even realize you getting one basket after the other.

Well, that's a very good— that's a very good question. I mean, at the end, okay, so, I studied with Frederik Prausnitz in Peabody, and his book was Score and Podium. And um, many probably know it, and uh, so, his idea was really for every composer to create, yes, of course, we want to start with a score, the score is the Bible, but at the end, who cares? I mean, yes, we care about everything there. But at the end, we are performers, and we bring it to life in that moment. And that means it doesn't matter if we intentionally create something completely outrageous or simply want to be true to the score, it always goes through our mind. Always through the emotions. And so, Prausnitz's idea was really to create that image that Alexander has of that score. And even if it's a contemporary one, it doesn't matter. I mean, it is always that add-on which makes it unique. That big combination of everything coming—composer, orchestra, the perform— the— understanding of the conductor. So, Mozart, same thing, like Jupiter Symphony, first piece of the Freemasons, in a way, Freemason inspired. So, and who knows? I mean, at the end, I do try to find this kind of individual take, at least, my excitement, "Oh, my gosh, look at this." And make it—and you won't see me reenact, you know, like crazy at all, but at least internally, it's like it becomes my—and and not in a bad way, but it becomes—

Thank you. Thank you very much, Michael. Real honor. Thank you.