Marin Alsop

Hey, that's not nice to start that out that way. (Alsop & Shapiro laugh)

Yeah, but 30— 30 years doesn't— it doesn't vary, um, between people. (Alsop laughs)

Yeah, there you go. (Alsop laughs)

I'm in Vienna, yes. Good to see you, too, Michael.

Yeah, there it is behind me. Um, well, this was a project— uh, I've been the um, music director for the— (Alsop chuckles) it's an odd— odd thing, but for the opening concert for the World Economic Forum for the past three years. And, uh, of course, years one and two, we— we were able to gather and do some really fun things in person. And, of course, this year, with the pandemic, um, we decided to create a concert, uh,— it's really like a concert film. And the idea to me was to try to um, address connection between people. And so, the film starts with Yo-Yo Ma playing Bach on a beach. And you see some of the sand art, um, that was created there. And from that, it goes to um, voices uh, singing from um, the choir that I was associated with in São Paulo, um, and the boys' choir in South Africa, in Drakensberg. And then from that— and that's a— that's a new piece by Reynard Ismayil called See Me. And that then sort of just really blends right into, uh, an excerpted Beethoven Pastoral Symphony, which I recorded in Vienna, but then we also had recorded in, um, Beijing, Afghanistan, Philadelphia. Um, so, it— it's just— what, and in Florence, also. So, we have this, you know, coming together of artists from all over the world, and, uh, I think it's a very— I think it's a very moving um, uh, experience to watch it. And I— I hope if everybody has a chance, maybe you can put it up on your um, the link. I'll— I'll send you the link and you can share it. And, uh—

That'll be great. And people will notice, I hope, that, um, uh, all the women conducting are— all the conductors are women.

I don't think we need to talk about it, but I do think we need to do things about it. (Alsop chuckles)

Well, definitely a lot has changed, Michael. I— I think— I think it has. You know, I think we've crossed that line. We've passed the tipping point now. It can't go backward anymore.

Here to stay. But—

—it takes a while to create a network, you know, especially when there hasn't been one for centuries.

Yeah, well, I can tell you about that. But I— I do think that this is a— you sort of, you know, threw a hot potato in the mix and then tried to (Alsop chuckles) back away from it. I think maybe we should talk about it because—

—at least from my experience, I think it's often important to go to an extreme before you find a balancing point. You know, and I think— I think composers are rightfully um, angry because of, again, centuries of being excluded. And, so, maybe we'll over-adjust. But, hopefully, we will finally adjust to a balance that is um, fair, appropriate, and incredibly creative. So, I just want to say that, because, you know, a lot of people ask me, "Well, why should we celebrate Beethoven? Who needs another celebration of Beethoven, you know, this— this dead, white, European guy?" So, I think that I was— I was really— I was really agonizing over that, because, of course, I agree in many ways. But I think it was Beethoven, not the musical genius alone, but— but the Beethoven's philosophy about the future, and about how he envisioned a world where people could achieve, um, great things by uniting. Where tolerance is important. Where connection is important. Um, where working together through joy is important.

And I think that's why he used the Schiller text originally, because it expressed so many new ideas at the time: the idea of individuality, the idea of freedom, the idea of unity. These were new concepts. And, of course, uh, for us today, it— it it sounds old-fashioned when you speak about brotherhood, you know? That seems offensive.

But I think, part of my um, part of my project, I— I was um, I was launching this project on six continents, um, and uh, with 12 different organizations and orchestras and with nine new texts. Um, so, taking the themes of Schiller's themes and Beethoven's themes about tolerance and unity, um, and joy, especially, and reimagining them for the 21st century. So, we have, uh— we did— we were able to launch the project in São Paulo, and with a— a— a text in Portuguese, and then, um, sadly, of course, everything got canceled after that. But we've— we've got an online iteration of it, and we will be doing it in Baltimore, for example, and the text has been done by Wordsmith, who's a fantastic rap artist. When we do it in, um, New Zealand, uh, the text is in Māori, and it involves indigenous instruments. So, in between the movements, I've also added music to make it sort of a— a journey piece that people can relate to. So, that was my idea.

(Alsop laughs) I always— I always appreciate a hot potato, yeah.

Yes, at the University of Maryland, yeah.

Well, I think, um, you know, maybe I'll speak to the NOI um, project. I— I'm— I'm happy to be their, uh, their first music director. They've never, you know, they've never had someone in that role. And, um, their executive director, Richard Scerbo, is— is phenomenal and really forward-thinking. I conducted this program of— I think for 8 years, um, in the '90s, and I loved it, because it's— it attracts sort of the best of the youngest, um, players coming out of college, you know, pre-professional. They— they may not have jobs yet. And they gather together for, um, for one month and work intensively. Uh-huh. And the idea is now to try to expand it to include, um, things like what I started at Cabrillo: a conductor's workshop, a composer's workshop. Um, they're very connected to my record label, Naxos. So, we're going to do several projects there, video projects, and the facilities at the University of Maryland, at the Clarice Smith Performing Arts Center, are absolutely gorgeous. They have seven halls. Um, so they have these resources, um, and they have this orchestra that's made up of eager, young musicians who are anxious and— and can't wait to work on contemporary music and standard repertoire. So, that— I'm very excited about that. And, um, the— the Taki Alsop Fellowship, which is called now, is something I'm extremely proud of. I started that in 2002. Um, as you said, Carolyn Kuan was the first recipient, and she's doing tremendous work at the Hartford Symphony. Laura Jackson was one of the earlier um, recipients, and she's, uh, in Reno. And we've had 24, um, winners, and they're all doing— among the 24, there are 18 music director titles now.

Um, they're from 16 nationalities, and during the pandemic, we've been able to get together— at least early on, we got together every week and started, um, a real community, finally. You know, I mean, so that they're helping each other and supporting each other, and, uh, it's been actually, um, a wonderful step forward for us.

So, it's, uh— in 2022, will be our 20th anniversary.

Yeah.

The rest is history.

Well, it— it feels almost like, um, uh, the perfect arrival point. I mean, not just timing-wise, I— I was so fortunate to take over this post during the pandemic, or right before the pandemic, because they've been working, and we've been able to record and and keep busy through most of this time. Um, the orchestra itself is, as you say, extremely flexible, extremely adaptable. Um, I would say relatively good-natured about all of it. Um, whether it's, you know, doing a piece by, you know, with graphic notation or doing a, um, a film score. They can do— they can play anything. Um, they don't— they don't come at things with huge judgment— prejudgment, anyway. Um, and, uh, I enjoy working with them tremendously, you know. They— they live their lives working under pressure, so it's not a big deal for them to be on TV, to be on the radio. They're used to it. Um, and so, uh, you know, I— I'm really loving it, and and, of course, living in Vienna is a dream come true, really, for a musician.

Yeah.

I think I met you in New York, in Long Island, yeah.

That's right.

Mhm.

Yeah. Thank you.

That's great. I appreciate your, um, your longevity and loyalty, too. It's been—

Yeah, it's been, um— it's been wonderful because I— I really didn't know any of these, um, composers that are based either in Germany or, um, here in Austria. So, I'm meeting and getting to know a lot of new composers and new music, um, particularly women composers now, you know, because this is, uh, at least, um, this is the moment where the pendulum has swung that direction, and, uh, so, that's really fun for me to get to know a lot of, um, a lot of these new voices. Um, and they're not all young, you know? Many are— are very experienced and, uh, have been writing for orchestra for a long time. Um, but it's a different— you know, there still is a huge divide. Uh, the ocean still seems to separate us quite a lot. And there's also, I think, an inherent, um, hesitation about American music, especially new American music. That it's— the— I think the impression is that it's too accessible or it's too easy. Um, so, I'm trying to introduce pieces, uh, American pieces here that I feel will really have success and that will open doors toward more American music. Um—

Sure.

You know, I— I don't know the answer to that question. I mean, I would probably be very wealthy if I did, (Alsop laughs) because every composer would come to my— but, um—

I think that, um, I really think that it's, you know, the— the entry point is very, very important. You know, what piece is played first, what the first impression is. Um, I remember that, uh, with, um, Chris Rouse, I can't remember if it's in Germany, I did, uh, his, um, Percussion Concerto, which, of course, is an homage to Wagner. And so, it was— it wasn't taken as seriously as an abstract piece that he would have written. So, in— in hindsight, I might have selected a different piece of his. Um, when I opened here in my position, in 20— 2019, I, um, I— I started my first program with his, um, piece called Rapture. And I think that was a good way to go.

Well, if I knew that, I would be a much better composer, and or a much more famous one. I don't know. Um, I wish— I deeply wish there were some kind of objective criteria to judge art, because I think mostly there isn't. I think you can judge— you can't even— there's no way to judge anything anymore. When we— when we're in a situation where anything goes. Where you can scrawl a political slogan on a— with a crayon and a childlike way on the side of a box and get into a major museum, because I've seen that in a major museum. Um, it— it— it is much, much harder, and, therefore, it's much harder for all kinds of nonsense to get through the door, both in artistic terms, and in academic terms, and in critical terms, and in all these terms, there— since there— there seems to be no criteria of judgment left, other than success, in effect. Um, and, in which in academe, you no longer have to— you can— you can make a very good academic career attacking your art now, um, and tearing it down in favor of one other, you know, one agenda or another, uh, tearing down the past, and— and you can do very well doing that, and get paid quite well. Um,

The reality of musical world, which has nothing to do with academe, unfortunately.

And show business. I know, I know. I don't— Do you have any theories— do you have your theories about that? Because I don't, really.

I— I do think that there are some objective criteria why, um, you know, Street Fighting Man, a tune I like by the Stones, is not as profound as the G minor Symphony. I think there are some objective reasons for that, having to do with richness and complexity and and things like that. Um,

Thank you, Michael. It's lovely to talk to a composer, too, in one of these things. That's new for me.