James Robinson

Thanks for having me. Real pleasure.

Former composer.

Okay.

Well, you know, I think when I was studying composition, uh, my principal teacher was Dominick Argento. And Dominick, uh, you know, obviously wrote some extraordinary operas and a lot of, you know, wonderful vocal music. So I, I was attracted to the, the voice and, and musical styles that, uh, that had more in common with, um, uh, theater than, than say purely, um, symphonic forms or, or other musical forms. Um, and I had studied theater and some design along the way, but I was focusing on, on composition. Um, and I find, to fast forward to when I started working, uh, as a director in opera, I found that it was just so much more useful to be able to understand the structure of music, to understand how scenes were put together from a musical standpoint. Um, you know, being able to communicate with singers not just on a theatrical level but also on a musical level, uh, was really helpful. And then my, my career started to evolve a bit and I was working with a lot of composers and librettists. So it was, uh, incredibly valuable to be able to, to work with composers and, and to, you know, get into their heads to figure out what they were doing and I could see it on the page, I could hear it. And, uh, I don't know, it just, it, it seemed like a natural fit. So I'm, I'm grateful that I have that background in, in composition.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, as artistic director at Opera Theatre of Saint Louis, one of the big initiatives that I introduced when I came on board in 2009, um, was to make sure that we were, you know, enjoying a steady diet of new and newer works. The company has always had a tradition of that, um, over the years, but I really felt that we needed to kick it up a few notches. Uh, so part of this initiative that I introduced called New Works, Bold Voices, um, takes on a lot of new works, but also gives composers a second chance to look at something that maybe they had wanted to fix, or a piece that had been neglected, uh, and needed a, a second viewing. Um, so and obviously we do standard rep and, and various other things at, uh, at Opera Theatre, but, uh, I think, you know, the work as a director also informs the work as an artistic director and, and the same way, you know, back and forth. Also I, you know, I really believe in putting together consortiums of companies, um, to, to co-produce and, and co-commission. So having an administrative position like that definitely helps, you know.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Oh yeah.

Well, um, where was that step? You know, it's interesting, I didn't have much experience with opera apart from working with Dominick. Um, you know, I was hanging out with him when he was preparing for a couple of premieres because I was his assistant at the University of Minnesota. Um, and then my other composition teacher, um, was Shulamit Ran. And Shulamit, uh, had never really done anything in opera. So, um, although she's, she's done a couple of things I believe. Anyway, so I was meant to be working on my master's thesis and some friends in Santa Fe, New Mexico invited me to house sit for them because they had a piano and I thought, great, I'll have a uh, three months uh, to work on my master's thesis, which is meant to be a short opera based on one of the tales from the Decameron, which happens to be my favorite book. Um, and I needed a summer job, uh, so I wrote a letter to the Santa Fe Opera and said, hey, you know, I'm in town and, and I got a phone call and they said, what, what do you do and what are you looking for? You know, we don't need any composers and, you know, what do you what else can you do? And I said, well, uh, I don't know, and they said, would you like to become an usher? And I said, sure. And uh, said, you know, you get to see the operas and, you know, it's not that hard. So I um, I got a job at the Santa Fe Opera as an usher, I think it was in '87, '88, I was in my early twenties. And um, I was always assigned to the same place, which was a pass door, um, to backstage or the South Bar. And that's where everybody used to hang out during the shows, meaning the production personnel and, and all that stuff. And I just got to talking to people and, and um, they're all very, uh, very, very kind and, um, and then one um, one evening as the summer was coming to a conclusion, uh, um, you know, John Crosby, the founder of Santa Fe Opera was a formidable character and we were always advised never to say anything to Mr. Crosby. Uh, but I said, hey Mr. Crosby, I'm having a great time, this is a wonderful place and uh, you know, thanks for, you know, the experience of just allowing me to work here because I was genuinely overwhelmed by the place. Uh, and then about five seconds later, uh, I was approached by the artistic administrator and the house manager and what did you say to Mr. Crosby? And I said nothing, and they're like, well he wants you to come back next season, we just have to figure out something for you to do. So I had a meeting with them and they said, well why don't you uh, what are you interested in? Are you interested in the musical side of things or the production side of things? And I said I'm really interested in the production side of things if that's possible. So they said sure. Um, so I spent uh, a summer as a production assistant, um, following year and back in the day those were, our role was, you know, being an assistant director and an assistant stage manager. It was really brutal work. Um, and then at the end of the season in Santa Fe they do this apprentice showcase, these scenes, excerpts from operas, and uh, a director who was meant to do um, a scene, um, had to leave and Richard Gaddes, who was a, you know, the founder of Opera Theatre of Saint Louis and, and worked at Santa Fe for many years, said, well you seem to be interested in directing, why don't you take on one of these scenes? And let's see what happens.

And uh, I'd never directed anything and based on that they invited me to come back and direct more scenes and, and before I knew it, that's what I was doing. I was directing. Um, and I abandoned my music studies, um, because this felt more um, more like what I wanted to do. And then I was advised, I felt wildly unqualified to be a director. Um, and uh, and at first I thought maybe I should go to graduate school to learn how to do this, but I was advised by so many people who said, well you're already doing it, why don't you just continue doing it?

Oh absolutely.

Sure, it probably sounds a little unorthodox or a little backwards, but the first thing that I do is get a recording of something, so say it's um, say it's, you know, a Berlioz piece or um, I don't know, a Mozart opera, Verdi opera, whatever it happens to be. I get a recording of it and I just listen to the recording several times. I don't look at the libretto, I don't do much research on it. I just listen to it.

And part of that is to determine, in my mind at least, what what the drama is all about. Where these musical gestures seem to be um, shifting and, and where, you know, the structure of the piece uh, is based on, you know, the overall arc of the opera.

So I listen to it and I become very familiar with it that way. And then I read the libretto. And then I get a score. Sometimes I just go straight to a full score because I like to look at orchestrations too.

Yeah, and then I um, start putting the two together. Um, and uh, I like to then um, study full score and listen to various recordings of things. So once I feel like I've got that type of thing going on, I always think, okay, what are the most important events in the piece? Then I do a lot of research, you know, the usual thing, and um, and then I get together with designers. My um, you know, I have a wonderful group of people I work with. And we start talking about it. Um, and throw ideas out there and very quickly things start to formulate, percolate, uh, until we come up with, you know, kind of a basic uh, premise or concept.

Um, and then I you know, like I said, I work with terrific designers so I let them go off and think about it for a while and then we all get back together and see where where things are.

Um, and then that's pretty much how we set the stage for the next step. Uh, and then in rehearsal, um, I like to work very quickly. I like to set up a room, a rehearsal room where everybody feels comfortable to um, to create. Or I think being vulnerable is very very important.

So that people don't feel like uh, you know, opera singers are magnificent creatures, right? Um, the tricky thing about it is, um, unlike actors, and I also do theater and, and musicals and stuff like that.

Yeah. Um, but the, the thing that's different with a singer is a singer is coming into rehearsal fully prepared most of the time, fully prepared, knowing the role and, and all of that. And um, you know, when you're working with actors frequently, people have just sort of glanced at the script, they're not memorized, they're not off book. Uh, singers tend to be off book immediately. Um, and there is this feeling that you, you know, you have to know everything. But I like to set up an environment where people are still free to explore things. Um, and you know, singers have a lot on their shoulders too. I mean, everybody's going to compare a certain singer with whatever recorded legacy happens to be out there.

And you know, and it's kind of a study in trying to be uh, as perfect as possible all the time. And I like for things to be uh, I like to work very quickly, I like broad strokes, I don't start with details. But what I do is I say, okay, here's the objective in this scene.

So let's just figure out how we're going to deal with that. And again, moving very quickly, having quick conversations, I work closely with conductors. Um, I'm always curious about uh, things that are in the music. You know, it's like, okay, why is there a fermata there? Or why is that measure empty? Or why did we have a sudden key change here? Uh, and then with the singers, I'm big on punctuation. I'm like, well wait, why let's, that's a comma, it's not a semicolon, why is that word repeated? What does the word "ah" mean? You know? So it's those...

Clarity. And it's those types of things. So I like to bash through the piece very quickly and then go back and keep working on it and make I really try to make everybody feel comfortable like we're all working towards um, a common goal. And I believe, you know, everybody can have uh, a valid contribution to this. Um, you know, I love it when conductors have opinions about the drama. Uh, and you know, some conductors don't have many opinions about the drama, but I always love it when a conductor will say, um, "you know, what are we going to do about that um, that weird modulation we're going from, you know, C minor to, um, uh, E flat minor suddenly. What are we going to do with..." And it's like, good idea. Or why is there a fermata, what is that? And I find that type of collaboration very important because, you know, ultimately we are dealing with a musical art form. Particularly in opera.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I think one thing that's important is, so again, the difference between a play and an opera is an opera the pacing, the music, the rhythm is basically baked into the thing, right? You deal with certain tempi, you deal with certain things that are pretty much established, right? There's some flexibility in that, obviously.

Um, when you're working on spoken theater, you're finding the pacing in a very different way. You're finding the rhythm, you're creating the rhythm, you're creating the music. You have to create and in opera it's in many ways it's been predetermined. It's been laid out in a way. And you just have to make sense out of it. In a play, you're the one who's responsible for, okay, let's figure out what the pace of this scene is. And sometimes if I'm doing spoken theater I will make references to say musical forms.

You know, um, and even if the actors are not particularly uh, I don't want to say, I'll say sensitive to that type of music, at least they have a they understand it. It's like, you know, the pace of this scene is like a fandango.

Um, and we talk about what that is. And then it's like, oh, okay. So when you're working with opera, you're dealing with something that is pretty well set and laid out. The trick is in opera, I think the hardest thing is transitions. So it's transitioning from one piece of music within an opera to another. How do you get to those moments?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. And even internally, you know, there are shifts within scenes and you have to figure how do you get from uh, how do you get from an aria into a cabaletta? How do you pace a scene like um, like uh, Lucia di Lammermoor. How do you pace like the whole Regnava, which is a long scene and there's a lot of stuff going on in there.

And that's one of the things that you have to figure out. Another example is um, Handel operas.

I love doing Handel operas. But they are re- I mean I hate saying they're not for the faint of heart, but they're hard because um, you know, you're dealing with the ABA form, the da capo aria form a lot of the time. And it's a choice, you know, you've got your A section, does that express one thought, one emotion, one action, whatever it is. Then you've got the B section. Then if you have an ornamented da capo, hmm, how do you it's really like how do you justify the ornamentations and the embellishments?

Absolutely. And the other thing is, you know, we view opera, even though I will say, you know, it is primarily a musical art form. Uh, we view it with modern-day expectations of drama. And film.

And film. And, you know, Handel operas of the 18th century was like, who's the next greatest castrato out there singing something and they want to hear the vocal fireworks and we all know that, you know, there were certain conventions that were followed, the idea of drama was not at all what it is these days. So when you're doing something like Giulio Cesare or Radamisto or...

Something like that, you know, you try to figure out what the drama is there.

Uh, and, you know.

Oh. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, um, you know, it's funny at Opera Theatre of Saint Louis, we perform everything in English.

We commission translations of things, we have a wonderful diction specialist, um, Erie Mills, um, working with our casts and, and that is very, very important, you know, getting. And the thing that always happens is I find that singers, um, American singers are often so much more prepared in languages that they don't speak.

They spend a lot of time like nailing their Italian diction, is that an open or closed O, is that, you know, uh, a double consonant and all. Same thing with German, French, whatever.

English, people can get a little lazy.

And it's really, you have to work extra hard, uh, sometimes getting people to sing their own native language.

Yeah.

Yeah, large venues are challenging because um, I think you go for stronger, broader um, gestures. It's really how you use the space. And I'm a big believer in blocking a show. I believe that blocking, that fundamental thing which isn't really talked about very much in you know, I like using space. I'm a big fan of watching dancers work.

Oh well thank you. And part of it in a large theater is you want to keep that focus because the stage and Porgy and Bess, you know, that was 95 people on stage. Um, and you really have to figure out how to do that. Now, at Opera Theatre of Saint Louis, we have a theater that's under a thousand seats and it's a three-quarter thrust stage. So you have audience on three sides and everybody's super close. So that presents its own challenges because, you know, opera is generally thought of as a proscenium-based um, art form. Um, but I love the thrust stage because the audience is so close and it's a very different dynamic. I had an experience with um, a couple of years ago we did Marc Blitzstein's Regina, which a sadly neglected piece I think.

Yeah. Totally. And um, it was very interesting because uh, Susan Graham was in it, Susanna Phillips, James Morris, beautiful, beautiful group of people, and um, and they really had to get used to having the audience up close and personal. So I love working in small theaters, but you you do a it's a different it's a different type of presentation. And that's what's uh, a bit of a challenge.

Probably. Probably. It does. And cast members realize that they're being scrutinized in a very different way. There's nothing to hide behind.

Good. Good.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, I mean, I love working with composers and librettists. And I'm also really excited when um, when as part of our New Works, Bold Voices series, we bring in people who maybe don't have any experience with opera. Um, Terence Blanchard for example, fantastic jazz and film composer.

Spike Lee movies. Dear, wonderful man. Great composer. And he'd never written an opera. And I thought, wouldn't this be fascinating to have Terence Blanchard write an opera? And he came up with an idea, so I helped him develop that, I worked with the librettist, Michael Cristofer, and I wanted to see what would happen and to give them some guidance. Same thing, the wonderful playwright Rajiv Joseph adapted um, the Salman Rushdie novel Shalimar the Clown for us with Jack Perla, and Rajiv had never done anything like this before. So I like to see what people do, and I also say, look, uh, and Terence's second opera based on Charles Blow's Fire Shut Up in My Bones, uh, a filmmaker, Kasi Lemmons, uh, did the libretto for that, which again was very complicated. So I like to see what people do, and having knowledge of um, musical theater and uh, operas, I can say, okay, your scene is set up a bit like uh, the party scene in Traviata. Or uh, this particular trio in this Donizetti opera. Take a look, don't copy it, but you're dealing with the same set of issues. So how can that inspire you? Um, you know, or you say, you know, Kiss Me, Kate. This is just like Kiss Me, Kate, so why don't we figure out how that works.

So that's part of the process, and also just helping illuminate certain things. And also uh, I think sometimes people who haven't created opera before are a little timid about it. And I always say let's let's just go bold, and we can always pull back.

My great pleasure. Thank you.