Carlos Kalmar

I'm in Shaker Heights, meaning I'm in Cleveland.

I know, I know Frank. He's one of my faculty colleagues.

Yeah, that's correct. And I would say the difference is apparent within fairly six, six weeks, 10 weeks of of experience with the students. You know, I have a very, very long experience just what I call building orchestras, meaning finding an orchestra, wherever I find the orchestra, and just taking it to a different level by constantly working and constantly kind of refining what is there, building on their strings, etcetera, etcetera. And now I'm in an environment where I technically want to do the same, but I am very aware that a certain number of students who are right now with me and have been working with me for the last five months, are not going to be there next year, and they are going to be replaced by freshmen, and all the newcomers who have never worked with me. So it's this process of building doesn't really exist. It's also one of the biggest differences, which of course comes, I would say, with, it's the only time I mentioned the word age, is that when you work with professional orchestras, you can rely on their experience no matter what, and where in their career they are, meaning they know the A, B, and C of orchestra playing. Whereas when you are in an environment where you are teaching and you're working with students, um, there might be students there whose experience as orchestra players is very, very limited and they don't really know what to look for in an orchestra, and that is one of the parts where I'm teaching. Then aside from it, of course, exposing them to any repertoire and any style that I can even think of so that they become complete musicians, but it's different.

Um, so—your background. I'd be curious.

So, in in I studied with two teachers in Vienna in Austria, and I actually went from one to the other. Um, so I started with Karl Randolf at the Conservatory of Music. A wonderful man, I would say he was a little bit of the older wise man because uh, at that time I had no experience. I had never had proper training. I had conducted, but no proper training, and he could have beaten me up without even blinking if I made a lot of musical mistakes and have what you have when you are very young, a lot of very crazy ideas, but he pretty much let me be and kind of, uh, he let me grow in one direction and kind of shaped off the branches that went too crazy to the side. And later I studied with Karl Österreicherer, which was Karl Österreicherer was the successor of the great Hans Swarowsky.

Karl Österreicherer was the more technical, uh, side of things. Not only, but mostly, that is what I took, and I always joked that, um, that, of course, not all his students made it to be conductors. Some just veered off and did something completely different. It's just, uh, it's nobody's fault. It's how it goes. However, I would say that all of us could conduct. All of us, meaning technically, just keeping an orchestra together and just showing certain things, there were all good. And Karl Österreicherer was, of course, uh, very, very healthy for me because that is where I learned, um, uh, kind of the technical side of conducting.

Oh, hell no.

No, it's one of my very many weaknesses is I'm a violinist.

Yeah, I always say that one of my biggest advantages was, um, in terms of, and I still cherish it now, 37 years later, I cherish the fact that I sat in an orchestra for quite a while, as a substitute in Vienna. I have quite an experience playing the violin in an orchestra. The other part that I cherish very, very much is during my student times in Vienna, I was also the choir director for two choruses, amateur choruses.

Wonderful training.

Not only that, but training of when you actually conduct and you have to work with people who are not musicians and you have to adjust your vocabulary and get the best out of them.

Try to be motivational, etcetera. It's it's an important step because you, I I don't recall that it was that way, but I would always say, you come off your high horse and you get the reality. And the reality was wonderful. I still remember to this day that just at the very end of my what you call tenure as choir director, I did, in both cases, I unified them and I did the E flat Major Mass by Franz Schubert, which is a work that, uh, here in the United States, not many people know.

They should.

The masses are incredible. And E flat Major is just, it's it's beyond belief. It's the quality of The Unfinished.

Essentially, that was the the way to get people to attend mass. You just tell them the music is going to be good.

People were like, I'm not into religion, but you say, hey, come on.

Mass by Mozart, pretty good.

Yes, they did.

Mhm. Yes.

Uh, they spoke both. Uh, so I grew up with two languages from the get-go. Um, the interesting thing about the language is that, of course, I was born in Uruguay, which was for my parents the second country they went because they ended up fleeing the Holocaust. They ended up in Bolivia, where they met. At the time, we are talking 1938. My dad was 10. So my mother completed, um, school, high school, in Bolivia, and that is why my mother spoke without any accent, Spanish. Because she went to school there and she had a great, she had an interesting ear for that. For music, no ear. But different story. And my dad, who was 10 years her senior, uh, always spoke with an accent. And at home, we spoke everything.

Oh yeah.

Uh, yeah, my my parents were from Vienna in Austria, and they yes, they escaped right after, I mean, they didn't know each other at that time. They escaped after Reichskristallnacht.

Left the country.

I studied privately. My parents noticed, uh, they always were interested in taking their boys, my brother and myself, um, to concerts, and they noticed that I have kind of a certain interest, uh, for it. And they asked me whether I want to study an instrument. I and I at that I remember this, when they asked me, and I only could name really specifically two instruments. Uh, for whatever reason, I didn't I didn't connect to things like it's a cello or it's a flute. I knew it's a violin, it's a piano. So pick one. I picked the violin. And I started privately.

Well, what essentially got us to Vienna was that, um, I would say the the main reason was that my brother and I were poised to study something that you cannot study in Uruguay. My brother had this idea of becoming a teacher, um, of a certain kind, and I wanted to become a musician, but we would have to travel to Europe. And my parents simply didn't like the idea of splitting the family because they thought, rightly so, that if we their boys go, they they are going to see their boys once a year and that's it.

Yeah, and they didn't want to do that. And so they they took the risk. I still admire that fact that voluntarily they moved the entire family, us four, uh, to Europe and succeeded, and settled in Vienna of all places. And lived there, I would say, happily ever after.

That was 1973.

Ah.

I will focus on any repertoire that allows the the students, uh, to grow. And I will try, to, I mean, you have to understand that my conducting students, where I'm aiming at, are not the beginners. So I essentially I don't teach the A, B, and C. Um, what I want to do is, uh, to teach them how to use and rely their technical abilities in an environment of professional musicianship so that they, uh, can act have the aptitude of working with their hands and their expression, um, in such a way that they don't have to constantly interrupt the orchestra and the flow of rehearsal, which is where it and I also would love, uh, to over time teach them what I call rehearsal technique because I remember myself very, very vividly that, uh, in my very last week as a student, in Vienna, I also participated in the Hans Swarowsky International Competition. And I remember that I got to the finals, and I had, um, a rehearsal with the radio orchestra and I did Beethoven 4. And I did my rehearsal and then I sent everybody for coffee, meaning, that's it for break. And I was pacing there in the hallway of the Wiener Konzerthaus, and, uh, Maestro Ľudovít Rajter, um, who was for years the chief conductor of Slovak Philharmonic, and who at that time was I think already 80 years. He stopped me there, very fine, kind man. I remember him vividly and said, "Kalmar, listen. You are very talented, but you have to stop talking."

And I thought, of course, I was shocked, but, uh, over the years, I I remember this very well, and I thought, great advice because most of the time we young conductors, uh, we talk way too much.

Exactly, exactly. I mean, of course, that is, in terms of Sir Thomas, that's slightly on purpose overdone.

But but in a way, it's very, very true. And I think that when it happens that a conductor has the technical tools and the knowledge that he doesn't need to interrupt an orchestra all the time, that he can develop a sense of flow. Yes. If I can teach my students something that goes into that direction, then I will have done my job.

Oh. No, no, I think it's the part of the training that a musician must have.

A conductor in particular, uh, that is also one of the focal points. I mean, the easiest way for me to explain it just in a very general way is, um, if we all would understand, uh, making music, conducting, um, as utilizing speech.

Speech. And in a language, no matter what language you speak, there is a certain melody and you will, uh, kind of your you're aiming towards certain words without even thinking. And, uh, and that I always most of the time I I would say 90% of the time, I look for where do does phrasing actually go because phrasing goes somewhere. I just have to figure out where it goes and, uh, very often we can butt our heads and discuss, um, essentially not only where it goes, but we might have different opinions, and then we'll talk about that.

At least know what you're saying. And I am this is not a criticism of of the students because I have not yet had my own students. I will next year. Uh, but I'm sometimes amazed by the fact that the musicians don't really know where does a phrase go, meaning, what do I need to say? And you what I want to do is essentially help them, um, and I have to remember that at all times, help them to find their ways because you know, as a teacher, um, with a lot of experience on your shoulders, you are always in danger of telling the student, this is how it's done. Just tell you, this is how you phrase, etcetera. And trust me, I am very opinionated. I have a very clear idea. But I have to as a teacher, I think you have to help the student, this young musician, to find their way.

That guy.

Yep.

That that guy's 40th Symphony, first movement.

I mean, I would my my thinking, first of all, do not take it too slow.

Not not not a good to me, not a good idea because I think the expression of the first movement when it starts, it's a little bit of uneasiness of urgency amongst other things. So this, uh, this it should not sit, because then if it sits, the it's very, no. It it just it doesn't express what I think Mozart wanted. And I think that it also, I think if you and I don't think that what I have in mind is so insanely, uh, fast. But when you don't go slow, um, it helps you to shape the bigger picture because, um, one thing, and we are kind of touching the topic, is we talk about the phrasing, which is the little sentences. Uh, but let's talk, I don't even say the chap the poem. Let's talk about the verse. Four verses, for something like that. And you have to have a sense of how to shape that. And you have to have a a structural idea of how to shape the entire thing, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I mean, with that guy. But I I am an absolute sucker for because I remember Beethoven said that, I I read many times that whenever there was a concert about his music, the first question for him was, "How were the tempi?"

And I thought like, okay, there you have it. And I am very, very meticulous in terms of thinking what is the tempo. And of course, the thing with with whether it's that guy, uh, behind you.

So Mozart's 40th Symphony, first movement. Of course, now there are probably, I don't know, about that symphony there are easily 200 recordings available. Easily. And I would guess around 25 of them are really very good. So, and they are very, very different. I mean, we're talking about Mozart 40. So you will have people, um, not, uh, not that I have actually I've never heard whether he recorded it, but I assume I would know how he does it. Um, my dear colleague Bruno Weil, who was uh, director of Tafelmusik in Canada, I think Canadian, um, will be quite faster than I even think.

And on the other side, you have, I'm sure he recorded it, Otto Klemperer.

And that's...

So do I. And the thing is, just yes, I am I am always in favor. If you want, just listen. Don't be shy. Don't copy, because you are not that. I remember when I was very young, I of course, was fascinated with Klemperer and his approach and the the majesty of his music.

Yeah, and then I tried to kind of mimic that, which didn't get me anywhere because I'm not Klemperer.

I'm slightly short. I'm slightly shorter and okay, now I'm in a few years I get to that famous age.

I would love to say that the answer is no. Uh, of course, when if you mention Ormandy or the likes, well, that is really the past. We have that has changed ever since. Um, I like to think, and I would like to give that message also to young conductors and students alike, that we as music directors, not as guest conductors, as music directors, owe it to ourselves and in particular the industry, um, especially here in the United States, that we have, um, what I call a financial conscience. Music directors, meaning, be aware that the amount of money you make by your programming is absolutely crucial for the health of the institution. So, if you are going to plan in whatever orchestra, your music director of a series of Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, uh, followed by, just to name a few, are amazing stunning composers, you might have great concerts in front of a fairly empty hall. And your marketing department and your president might not like it. And that's where it comes to a clash. So I have worked my entire career, especially the last, I would say, 25 years, on creating programs that feed the needs of pretty much everybody. Um, meaning you stretch in different directions and you give, uh, you you are aware that there is a certain amount of your audience that wants to hear the well-worn warhorses, that are warhorses for a reason, by the way. Don't get me wrong, I love to conduct Dvořák 9 or Beethoven 5 or Tchaikovsky 4. They are they are amazing best works ever written amongst others. But I also like to take the audience into a direction where they have never been. And I think over time that you try to create with your audience a trust, um, so that the audience knows that even if there is something on the plate that they have never eaten, it's going to be really, really interesting and they are going to take away something from that. And that, in consequence, will be at all times will be accepted by the management and cherished by the board. I remember specifically, uh, when the the crisis, uh, the economic crisis of, well, 14 years ago, give or take, hit. We were we were in jeopardy in Oregon, as everybody else was, but we were having a hard time. And I got a little bit of pressure from the board in terms of changing my programs. And we settled because instead of changing the programs, I mixed it up in a certain way, and I provided something to the board, to the people in the office, and to the audience, which is called context. Meaning I you probably realize I like to talk about music.

And I as my wife likes to say, don't give him a microphone, he never stops talking. Or if you give him a microphone, tell him it's three minutes and then shut up.

Anyway, if you tell the audience something, they will relate to the piece in a very different way.

And that's what I have been doing. And that's how I I would say I I averted the danger of, uh, marketing professional presidents, etcetera, taking over a part of my program. Um, so I I must say that I was very lucky. I've never had a fight, meaning have to, no, we do this because I want. No. I was always very like, um, I'm I'm very team oriented and I always was very understanding. So,

What I also say, and I say that to I don't know whether it's musicians in general, but conductor colleagues who are taking over an orchestra, please don't blow through your budget in barely two concerts, because what is there to be left? Just be be financially responsible as a musician, and you will do very well.

If I could answer that...

I mean, I don't think I can answer that question in a way that is satisfying. But I, as a as a colleague of many, many wonderful composers, I see the problem that composers run into, which is so many things have already been said in music. So composers are bound to find their way that has not been traveled yet. Number two, which is a topic we could probably expand for another 15 minutes, should an art form in general, music included, reflect the times in which we live? Uh, because for me the answer is oh yeah. And lastly, which doesn't reflect what neither Brahms nor Dvořák, amongst others, did is it's music is classical music what you hear in a concert actually there for entertainment? What is entertainment anyway? So, if you put all of that together, you run into as a composer to so many problems and I am fascinated beyond about the fact that, um, pieces survive probably for a reason, while others don't. And if I would know which one of the current composers are going to be played in 50 years when I'm already gone, I I would know things that I actually don't have an answer for. Of course, I believe to some extent that a certain style of music peaked at a certain time. Uh, and that is where we get the best composers that we play over and over. And those composers speak to humanity, no matter what. The comprehensiveness of those composers is absolutely stunning. Um, I think, and I don't say that as an explanation, but it's helpful and we touched on that if occasionally you give an explanation to people about what they are going to hear or why or something, just a little hint. With music by Mr. Beethoven or Mr. Dvořák or Tchaikovsky or Mozart or Bach, you essentially don't need that explanation. It just retains itself.

And that is a problem that that trust me, I have done I wouldn't say that much, but I've done quite a number of world premieres. And when it comes to world premieres, what I really want to do is, um, I want to help in giving birth to something that actually can walk by itself. Meaning, the worst thing that I that I have, and I have done that, is making the world premiere of a piece and knowing this are two concerts of this piece in one, meaning it's the first and the last. Nobody will ever hear this piece again. And it's it's so distressing because you think the composer, no matter who it was, put so much effort in creating this piece of art and it's just not it's not it's not relating to people. And if I knew, by the way, how the perception taste of, uh, classical music will change over time, I mean, I I I'm probably very mildly old-fashioned in the sense of I don't know whether as a tool, whether quarter tone will get us anywhere. Intonation. Meaning overused. As an expression? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, as an expression. But not I mean don't write a piece in quarter tones because it's it's...

Well, probably because there are there is a slew of pieces that people at the time when they happened, they didn't understand it or later came a time when the piece disappeared. Mahler 9, yes, it was not popular, and of course, the the the Vienna Philharmonic was up in arms against the piece because it was so at the time dreadfully complicated, uh, that they simply didn't and it also is it's Mahler, it's long. So all these components, but I mean, I we all know, for example, the fact that this this St. Matthew Passion by Mr. Bach, which is undoubtedly one of the greatest pieces ever conceived.

And if Mr. Mendelssohn wouldn't have, uh, kind of led the charge.

Yeah. And said, hey, listen, this is it, uh, probably we would still know it. But the that's the thing with classical music. I I wish I would have an answer, and I wish I would see things that I think in 30 years people are going to understand, but all I can do is immerse myself when it comes to modern scores. Doesn't need to be a world premiere. Modern scores where I immerse myself with everything that I have and I try to make the case. I mean, last piece I conducted, um, as a world premiere was here at CIM, Keith Fitch, piece called Ali. And I thought that is that piece does something, and it's just one example. Um, does something that I consider a quality of composers which is, uh, especially when you work with students, you have quite an amount of rehearsal that you don't have with a professional orchestra. Right. And you go into a lot of detail work, anyway. And the thing that Keith's piece did for me and I think for the students as well is at first it was like, oh my god, this is hard and this is very, very this, or whatever you thought. And the piece over time grew on all of us. Also because we got better at playing it, but it grew on us and at the end it was sheer enjoyment of just making the case for a composer who is one of our own. But it's just I'm utilizing that because it's a vivid example of something that just happened. It happened over time to many, many other pieces that I had the pleasure of conducting that are absolutely contemporary.

Real pleasure, thank you, Michael.