Kyle Ketelsen

[Laughs]

Thank you. Hi, Michael. Great to see you. Great to be here.

Thank you so much.

That's a good question. I mean, I think, uh, you know, my teacher at Indiana, Giorgio Tozzi, used to say, you know, he'd say, "You either have it or you don't." And he was talking about stage presence. I think acting is certainly a skill you can hone, and you can learn techniques of acting. Um, I've never—I've never taken an acting class.[Cell phone rings]

Is that my phone? I've never taken an acting class. Um, I've—my whole life I've been—I think this probably came from my mother. Um, I just have—I have memories of watching movies with my mother.

And for whatever reason, I've just been grabbed by dramatic prowess. You know, you see it—you see an actor on film or on TV or on stage and it doesn't seem like they're acting.

You know, and that's Method, that's Stanislavski. It's, you know, it's Brando and Dean and, um, and De Niro and—and on, um, and much more common these days, of course, than it was, you know, half century ago. And so, uh, you know, I, [Sighs] and you learn as you go. You know, I look at things that I did when I was early in my career,

acting-wise, movement on the stage, um, and one of the great—one of the great things we have today is video, which is so readily available, you know, it's in your pocket. And I tell any young singer who will listen, uh, the same as I've told my son on the mound, you know, "You watch yourself. You have to watch yourself over and over and over because you pick up things to do right and to do more—sometimes, more importantly, to do—to not to do, things that you—you say, 'I can't believe that's my—that I have that um, that quirk in my delivery or that quirk in my movement on stage or whatever.' And—and um, you can if you're serious about improving, and—and as most of us are, and I'm a perfectionist when it comes to stagecraft,

voice and drama, always looking for improvement.

Then you pick it out and you—you improve it. You store it away and you say, 'Okay, that's—that's what I'm going to do for now on,' or, 'That's what I'm not going to do for now on.'"

Yeah, I've seen him. Heard of him. [Laughs]

Right. [Laughs]

[Laughs] Yeah. And I've also sung, uh, Commendatore and Masetto, much earlier in my career.

Yes.

Uh, yes. I did a new production there by Barrie Kosky and it's, I think we had two or three Wiederaufnahmen that I've done. Um, so yeah, a whole bunch.

Well, first of all, to Leporello, it's, I first did Leporello, I think, in 2000, Madison Opera, 12 miles from where I'm sitting right now, before I even lived here. And I remember it was, um, Louis, uh, oh, what's his last name? You know, once you hit 50, Michael, I'm telling you, you can't remember. We try to find information.

[Laughs] Okay. All right. Um,

To approach Leporello, uh, it's very much a comedic role, obviously. You're the comic relief. But with comedy, I have always approached it, you know, and, and I think I get this for—again, from— I'll watch interviews with every great actor, every great director from, motion picture history. And, one of the things that, that I've learned from that is that you can't approach comedy like you think it's funny.

You know, I approach comedy like it's, like it's true to life. And if the comic writing is truly good, Da Ponte, Mozart, it comes through. You know, I, I, you don't try and yuck it up. And I, whenever I see that, and I see it a whole lot in the opera world.

You know, people do this and they throw their arms and say, "That's my 'I'm being funny' gesture," you know.

Yeah. Um, you can't do that. Um, in my opinion, it's, it just kind of draws yawns to me. I mean, it's, there's a certain amount of opera funny, you know, that, that, you know a bit's coming and so you'll laugh at it. And I, I do that as well. If I'm watching a show, I'm familiar with a show, I know something's coming, and I laugh at it because it's cute. It's a convention. But when you're learning the role and to dramatically— oh, you're speaking of, you're speaking of vocally. Both, both. You can't, acting and vocal. Sure, you can't really change it. You know, you can't say, "Well, now I'm doing Commendatore, so..." which I haven't sung since 1994, you know, real— I, you know, I won't, I won't sing that for another 15, 20 years probably.

Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I proposed to Chicago Lyric, because I did Masetto in 2004, I did Leporello in 2014, I proposed to them that I do Don Giovanni in '24 and then Commendatore in '34, but they didn't bite, so.

It might happen yet. [Laughs] So, um, you can't say, "Well, now I'm doing this role, which is it demands, you know, a darker sound or a..." You know, there are of course nuances you can give to it, but when it comes to just the overall vocal production, everything should be the same. You can't, you shouldn't change it, only when it comes to this right here, you know, and, and right here. You can't change it based on the role. So, my approach to Leporello— now, granted, I first studied Leporello a couple decades ago and Giovanni is really a new thing to me. I mean, I did it a few times much earlier and I don't count those. But now I'm really making a, I'm doing it at the Met coming up and I'm doing it...

Somewhere else, I forget where. Um,

Yeah, I've heard of it. [Laughs]

I'm thrilled to do it there, of course. And, you know, it's the same basic approach vocally. You can't,

Of course.

Yeah, singing, certainly. Um, you know, these are the—these are the—the—the numbers in, as—as the role of Giovanni, these are the numbers that kind of, um, ask the most of me, "Là ci darem" and, uh, "Deh, vieni alla finestra," the—the—the serenade, because they should be a little softer. That's not my forte, so to speak. Um, it's, [Laughs] so, when I, I, I can't give a floaty— if I'm, if I'm going to sing, es— uh, I digress. Within the context of the show especially, like if I were to warm up one day and just sing "Là ci darem" or "Deh, vieni," it'll be much easier than in the context of the show. For example, the serenade is in the second act. It's after a duet, a trio, um, and a few recits.

So, I have to approach it the same I would any other number in the piece. Um, and that is, you know, for example, I'll go the opposite direction. "Fin ch'han dal vino calda la testa, una gran festa," it's, [Scatting] well, you can't do that with your voice. If you do, you're dead. And you learn that, you learn that eventually. So basically, and I've told this to other singers who say, "How do you, how do we do this? How do I do this? You know, what, what is your opinion on this?" I say, "You've got to sing everything as bel canto. Just have everything nice and legato and you can let all of this mechanism here break it up. You've got to have a solid, ah, you know, you just have to have a solid tone and make it a healthy tone, and this can break it up. You know, lips, teeth, the tip of the tongue, as my first teacher used to say."

So, it's dangerous when you start thinking, "I'm going to, I'm going to really make this bombastic." Now, that said, you can as an older singer, and I've found that as a, as a singer who's been around a while and I'm not so scared of hurting my voice anymore, I can do some things in a, in a performance where I wouldn't dream of doing it when I was 25,

because, because as um, Russell Braun tells me about his dad, um, great, great, uh, baritone as well, Victor Braun, would say, um, "These are basically, they're just flaps of leather. You know, I have, you know, he's about 55, 60, he's like, 'Basically, these are just leather, pieces of leather at this point,' you know."

Good, good.

Uh, yeah.

He's the most realistic— in my opinion, he's the most realistic character in the show.

That's my wife back there.

Well, you know, it's not, uh, it, I don't find it that difficult. In fact, I relish it because I, I just, I, gone after those, those roles that are dramatic, that do ask for us as performers to dig into ourselves and to, there's that method word again, you know, to, to find motivation within your own experiences to apply it to your character and to place it on stage.

Yeah, well, who, who in the history of humankind has ever been truly approached by um, a ghost and dragged into hell for, you know, in, in reality? On the max,

zero. Right, right. I mean, we're still waiting. We're still waiting. Who is, who is qualified more than, you know, who, who is more qualified to do that, who is not as qualified to do that? All you can do is, if you can't relate terrestrial feelings and sensations and experiences to the character, then you just have to use your imagination a bit and, Right. hopefully, you have a good director, as you said. Hopefully, there's good staging, hopefully, you have good colleagues who help you with that. Um, but if not, I mean, the, the, the music, it's no, it's no secret that the music, the underpinning, the, the um, it's the lynchpin of the entire experience of opera.

And there's a reason that movies are scored, and that television programs are scored, because it adds so much to the atmosphere and environment. And so, the basis for opera is music, and it's there, and so you trust it and you use it, and you follow it, and uh, hopefully, it aids you, in the case of uh, Wolfie over there, it, it does very much so.

Uh, yeah, thanks. [Laughs]

Thank you, that's, I think, that's my most common compliment is, "I understood every word," and I love that more than anything else. And,

it might be, yeah, without the microphone. Um, it might be, uh, partially thanks to my Fach, you know. I think sopranos and tenors might have to alter their vowels a bit more than we lower voices do. Um, but I don't completely, I don't attribute the, the entire shebang, the entire deal to that.

My, my first teacher at University of Iowa was a man named Albert Gammon, and he was a legend there in the region, and his tree extends. I still meet people who studied with him in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s. Um, and diction was his, he was a guru. Um,

and so, I learned a, a whole lot from him that is still there, and I still quote him. I still talk to fellow students of his about him, specifically for diction as well. Um. And his co- and his, his um, colleagues, a woman named Darlene Lawrence, who, who played for her, played for him, and um, lives in, uh, Escondido. Um,

It's accepted, though. You know, it's today and always, it's accepted. Prima la musica, dopo le parole. The voice first, you know. And if it's a beautiful voice and which just, you know, you, uh, can't believe the beauty, the, the, the quality of it, then you forgive other things. You forgive the acting, you forgive the diction. And it, it's done over and over again. Now, you asked if I think it would be, uh, to the benefit of opera if it were improved, if the diction, if the enunciation were much, [Coughs] better, more clear. Uh, yeah, of course I, I think it would. I mean, it would, it would enhance the entire experience, the Gesamtkunstwerk of, you know, what we're doing.

Not at all so far, but I'm putting out feelers for a few roles like Dutchman. Um, I'm, the Wotan, I think, uh, Rheingold is all that's for me so far. It's not that exciting of a role for me in that show as it is to the, in the others. Um, [Coughs] but it's, it's not as demanding.

Um, Gurnemanz, maybe. I mean, that might be one where I could do, uh,

one or two roles in that.

I would love to. I mean, I would love to sing, uh, sing some Dutchman to start. Um, as long as I can get past the aria, which is pretty early, then, yeah. But I find myself getting tired a lot less late, lot less often these days than I did, you know, even 10 years ago.

Certainly, yeah.

In performance, easily a D. Um,

And it's expanded. It's the rubber, it's the elasticity of the voice that, you know, if you sing long enough, it, it does, it, it happens over and over with singers who remain, especially my Fach, it gets lower and it gets higher. And that's certainly been the case. So, I mean, I can, I warm up to C below staff, I would sing D easily in, in, in performance, and I have. The Creation, Haydn, Creation calls for a D. And then above, um, um, in performance, I'm called upon to sing some F-sharps, ease, you know, and that's good for me. Hoffmann has an optional F-sharp at the end, or in one of the arias, uh, one end of, Scintille, diamant. And there are some F-sharps, um, I think they're only F's in Escamillo, but then some F-sharps here and there. And a G, I think there is since maybe some interpolated, oh, Golaud has an F-sharp. Um, but maybe there are some interpolated G's that you could, you know, just kind of add.

Certain roles. Say again?

Yeah, and I warm up to G-flat regularly. I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, uh, A-flat, G-sharp.

Yeah, I hope so. But, you know, I'm, I've always ex- called myself a bass with high notes. And a lot of, I think a lot of singers call themselves bass-baritones who are neither a bass nor a baritone.

I don't know. Um, I think it's a, it's a, I, I, I truly don't think there are many of us.

Thank you. Um, it's, it's easier now than it used to be. But there was, that's, you know, one of the things that we singers have to work on, one of those things that does stick out is the passaggio. And so, there's that time when you can, you can carry your chest voice up to a certain point, and then there are one, two, maybe three semitones which are mixed before you go to a full cover. And for me, that stops at about E-flat, E, those two. Sometimes on a D, I'll, I'll cover a little bit, meaning, meaning I'll just, I'll put it in head voice just a little bit depending on the va- uh, vowel. But,

Yeah, yeah, above the staff.

And then, um, safely, every single time an F, definitely. Occasionally, I'll cover an E-natural, but so those E, E-flat and E are a passaggio for me, right? So, it used to be much more difficult for me to produce an attractive tone on those two half pitches, and it's a lot easier now. It's a whole lot easier. I don't, it doesn't bother me at all, whereas before I would really stress about those, not stress, but I would, I would be concerned about those. It's not so much anymore. I mean, it's, age is such a benefit in this, this, uh, Fach.

For, I mean, it's physical, too. It's,

Sure. Well, that will certainly free, free one up from, from being so concerned with this square, this cubed 9 inches here, you know. Um, you know, when you can think of anything else, then your, your brain isn't spending so much time on vocal production. And in, in the ideal world, that's the point where you say, "Wow, I just, I was free, and I was able to produce that tone attractively and healthily." And, and one, one way that teachers have done that, I've had repeated, numerous teachers do that and I've actually given this, um, in master class and to colleagues. You know, I'll say, "Okay, when you go to sing that note, you make another physical motion on that note, that problematic note," and suddenly it frees it up, because suddenly your brain that is concentrating so much on right here changes its focus and suddenly it's, it's, it's concentrating on a physical activity such as throwing your arms in the air.

Nice.

You know, I find myself, um, whenever I've approached bel canto, it, it, much of it doesn't seem attractive to me, especially the, the comedic roles. Um, I mean, I've done the smaller ones like Basilio and Bartolo and, um, I did my first Dulcamara, which, that's a lot of patter. You know, it's a whole lot of, lot of, lot of, lot of words.

Um, from L'elisir d'amore, Donizetti, L'elisir. And so, I find myself, and I think this is nothing new for me personally, looking for the dramatic roles. I want to go into more, I mean, I can't say more because I think most of my career has been dramatic, um, as opposed to comedic. Uh, I would Scarpia in Tosca is one that I've looked at every five years or so since I was 25, and it's been, "No, no, no, no, still can't do it, still can't do it." Only last year I looked at it and I thought, "I think I can do it now." So that's one that we're, we're putting the feelers out as well for,

Yeah, I would love it. Because Tosca, I mean, uh, Puccini didn't write a whole lot for me. Um, I did some Collines early in my career, 20 years ago at the minimum.

[Laughs] Yeah. Yep, now I sold it, got some medicine.

Yeah, a little late. A little too late, a little too late, Colline.

Yeah. Yeah, and so I've had to think about, uh, I just watched Butterfly at the Met and I was looking at Sharpless and I was thinking, "Okay, I could do that. I could do that role." It's not a, it's, it's a, it's a, it's of course a tertiary role, but it's got a, it's got a good amount of stuff to do and it, it won't kill you, you know. It's not a whole lot of,

There you go.

I think that's too baritony, um, because I am, I would never call myself a baritone. If I were to try certain baritone roles, but there's crossover. It's kind of a George London thing, you know? It's kind of that sort of,

Yeah, I mean, I think he might have been, uh, an easy half step higher than me, um, but he's, you know, called a bass, as I like to be, with high notes. He's, he's a bass, but he's a high bass.

Um, yeah, it's there are certain, there are certain, um, certain milestones that, that occur in singers,

and it changes on, changes with the gender as well. You know, women have different things that go on than men, of course. News flash, we're different. And, um, for me, I remember the first time I heard this was Tozzi told me, when I was studying with him in my 20s, my late 20s, and he said, "Well, you, as you approach 30, puberty's finally going away. You know, you're, all the, all the, it lasts that long." And so, you have all these residual hormones which are affecting this. He said, "When you get 30, when you reach 30, give or take, it'll become richer sound," came true, "your stamina will increase," came true, um, one other thing which came true. And that was 30, okay. So then you, you, you know, you have that new era and you kind of sing, you think, "Wow, this is, it's getting easier," right? And then you get in your 40s and which is supposed to be the high point of your career, your 40s, your, your vocal high point. And then, for me, then I hit 50 and it's easier than ever now. It's so easy to sing now.

Thank you very much, Michael. Great to talk to you.