Episode 65

Sara Karloff

Sun, 08 Sep 2024  ·  00:12:37  ·  Transcript available

Interplay, Conversations in Music with Sara Karloff and tales of her father Boris Karloff in *Frankenstein* (1931) and at home.

Find out more at www.michaelshapiro.com

Transcript

Michael Shapiro:
Welcome to Interplay Conversations in Music. I'm Michael Shapiro, your host, and this edition is with a very special guest, Sarah Karloff, daughter of you know who. Welcome to Interplay, Sarah.
Sarah Karloff:
Thank you very much for having me.
Michael Shapiro:
I'm so happy to be with you again. As I've mentioned to you on several occasions, my score to the great classic film Frankenstein, directed in 1931 by James Whale and starring Colin Clive and your father, Boris Karloff, has been produced now over 60 times worldwide in one of its four versions, all published by Universal Edition in Vienna—Universal Edition, no relation to the studios.Now, we all know that the original film was a talkie, but for technical reasons, it did not have a through-composed film score. So, in 2002, I wrote one to accompany the original film, and it was originally done for chamber orchestra. And it was premiered at the Film Society of Lincoln Center's Jacob Burns Film Center, and since then, the work has garnered three more versions, in addition to the chamber orchestra version: a full orchestra version, a wind ensemble version, and a new opera version, which recently sold out the Los Angeles Opera and the Atlanta Opera. All four versions are published by Universal Edition in Vienna.So, Sarah, going back to your childhood, which everybody wants to know about—raised by... you were raised by the most famous of all horror film stars. Were your friends scared of your father?
Sarah Karloff:
Heavens, no. My father was... my father was the antithesis of the roles he played. He was an English gentleman, he was very funny, he was very, um, soft-spoken, he was very kind, he was... just could not have been more different than the roles he played. He did 20-some-odd, um, children's recordings: uh, Hans Christian Andersen, Rudyard Kipling, um, Just So Stories, all sorts of wonderful children's, um, albums. He was on Broadway in Peter Pan—hardly a monster, uh, although he did play Captain Hook.
Michael Shapiro:
That's right.
Sarah Karloff:
Um, children loved to come backstage during, um, that play and try on his hook. Um, he... when he was in Frankenstein—uh, which, by the way, uh, was before I was born, thank you very much—um, he, he said the children got it. They understood that the monster or the creature was the victim and not the perpetrator.
Michael Shapiro:
That's right.
Sarah Karloff:
And that all the mail he got, uh, during those years—well, all the mail he got from children, um, verified that. That they were not afraid of the creature, they understood him, they felt sorry for him, and throughout the years that I have been, uh, working to protect and, uh, really to extend my father's legacy, um, that's what I also have understood from fans. The children are not afraid, they understood that, that, that the creature was the victim. And so, no—my, the longest answer to your very, um, short question was, no, my, my childhood friends were, were in love with my father, as were all his fans later years.
Michael Shapiro:
Now, I told you too, at one point, that I wrote to him in the early '60s when I was 10 years old when he was in Thriller on TV, and I sent it to Boris Karloff, Hollywood, California, saying, "Dear Mr. Karloff, I'm 10 years old. I love Thriller. You're a thriller. Can I have your autograph?" And he sent it back. Somehow the post office got it to his house, and I have the envelope and I have the two photographs: one of him as he was then, signed by him, and the other one, he must have gotten it out of a box because it was a little wrinkled—the Monster. What a person he was.
Sarah Karloff:
He was indeed.
Michael Shapiro:
Did he ever regret being typecast? Or was he?
Sarah Karloff:
Um, uh, no and yes. Um, he said, um, that—and I, I've heard him in interviews, um, say that any actor who is lucky enough to be typecast is a very lucky actor. Um, he said, and most actors are indeed typecast in one way or another, if you're a, um, uh, dancing actor, if you're a romantic actor, if you're a comedian—no matter what you do in the theater or in film, you are in one way or another typecast. He said it was his bread and butter, although his, his career was very, very broad. He did, uh, comedy, he did, uh, Broadway, he did, um, much more than just Frankenstein and The Mummy, which of course were his two iconic roles. But, no, he did—he was grateful for being typecast, and he really felt that he was very lucky to be so.
Michael Shapiro:
People don't know that before the 1931 breakout role of the Monster in Frankenstein, he had been in dozens of films.
Sarah Karloff:
Um, uh, Frankenstein was his 81st film.
Michael Shapiro:
That's right.
Sarah Karloff:
And, and he said hardly anyone saw the first 80.
Michael Shapiro:
And I understand that he was not invited to the opening to which Colin Clive was invited because no one knew who he was.
Sarah Karloff:
That's right. My father was not invited to the premiere, and of course Colin Clive was, um, intended to be the star of the film, and, um, uh, it was, everybody, to everybody's surprise that the, the creature or the monster turned out to be the star. And, um, of course nobody knew what my father looked like, uh, behind all that magnificent, uh, makeup of Jack Pierce's. And so, when he... he hadn't seen the film in its entirety, of course, because he was busy getting the makeup removed when they would run the, run the, the daily shots. So he hadn't seen it, and, um, while it was, of course, running all over the country, my mother and he, uh, went up to San Francisco, and it was playing there. And they, uh, my mother was a graduate of UC Berkeley, and so they were meet—meeting a friend of, um, sorority sister of my mother's up there at the time. And my mother's name was Dorothy and her nickname was Dot. And so they walked into this theater, of course unrecognized, and they sat there, and when the scene played when my father turns around in the, in the doorway, her, her sorority sister, my mother's sorority sister, screamed out, "Oh my god, Dot, how could you possibly live with such a creature?" whereupon they were escorted out of the theater. So even then, that he didn't get a chance to see the whole film. And because of course nobody knew who he was when he was escorted out of the theater.
Michael Shapiro:
Here's the amazing thing for this musician, because I, I think of sound. This is a man in the sound film who only makes a few groaning noises, but had the most magnificent voice.
Sarah Karloff:
Yes.
Michael Shapiro:
I mean, his voice was unlike anyone else, and to this day everyone knows the sound of Boris Karloff. He's an exquisite speaker. So musical. I'm curious about one thing. You know, Leonard Maltin, the, the critic, wrote in his book about film that the original Frankenstein, 1931, lacked a film score and therefore was creaky. Do you agree?
Sarah Karloff:
Well, you know, I'm not quite sure what creaking means. Um, or what, that's why I wrote—
Michael Shapiro:
That's why I wrote a film score, which has gone—
Sarah Karloff:
I know. I know.
Michael Shapiro:
For over seven dozen performances, it's crazy.
Sarah Karloff:
I know. And I'm so anxious to see it.
Michael Shapiro:
We'll be there together. See, this is the thing I want to tell all of our fans of Universal Edition, that in future performances Sarah is going to accompany me, and we're going to do a pre-opera or pre-movie or whatever the version we use, um, we'll do a pre- pre-talk so we can enjoy all this great stuff about our beloved Boris Karloff. What do you think is—you spoke about it a little at the beginning, about children's responses—but what do you think is the essential message of the 1931 Frankenstein? And why would it present for this opera composer a challenge?
Sarah Karloff:
Well, I think there are a lot of messages in this film. Kindness over, um, viciousness or—
Michael Shapiro:
Mhm.
Sarah Karloff:
—cruelty.
Michael Shapiro:
Yeah.
Sarah Karloff:
Um, but I think the biggest message is, um, man playing God—
Michael Shapiro:
Right.
Sarah Karloff:
—is a mistake.
Michael Shapiro:
Yeah.
Sarah Karloff:
Um, I think that is the biggest message from the film—
Michael Shapiro:
Mhm.
Sarah Karloff:
—um, the one that one carries away from, after seeing the film. But I think there... I think there are individual messages that people carry away: personal messages, um, love messages, fear messages. I've been asked, um, why people enjoy being frightened, and I'm still struggling with an answer to that question.
Michael Shapiro:
Mhm.
Sarah Karloff:
Um, I don't... I don't have an answer to that. But I think that's one of the messages that this film asks of people: why do you enjoy being frightened? And this in part is a frightening film. A frightening concept of man playing God. Um, why do people enjoy this?
Michael Shapiro:
Well,
Sarah Karloff:
And it is a huge question to be answered.
Michael Shapiro:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, it's a gem of a time to be together. I, I must thank you, Sarah, so much for joining me on Interplay.
Sarah Karloff:
Well, I look forward to doing this in person.
Michael Shapiro:
We look forward to it, and with Universal Edition at our side we will make it happen.
Sarah Karloff:
Good. I look forward to it, and thank you for having me on.
Michael Shapiro:
Of course, Sarah. Thank you for joining us. This is Michael Shapiro, signing off as your host of Interplay: Conversations in Music.