Matthew Kraemer

It's great to see you, Michael.

Mhm.

That's a complicated question, because, um, it seems to be evolving and continuing to evolve. And of course, it does depend on which particular orchestra you're talking about. Um, you know, for anybody that's tuning into this broadcast that isn't familiar, you know, that typically conductors have two titles: music director and conductor. So, conductor refers to everything on the podium that you do with the orchestra: rehearsing, um, you know, the performances. But the music director aspect, you know, really requires multiple hats. In Indianapolis, this is very much the typical prototype of an orchestra, where I select the repertoire, the guest conductor, guest conductors, guest artists, and um, you know, work with the administrative team and board. But here in Louisiana, it's a very different operation, because the musicians actually own the orchestra, since 1991 when it emerged from the ashes of the New Orleans Symphony. So, they have a great deal of say in the repertoire that we select, the guest artists that are there, the guest conductors. So, it is a very collaborative approach. But the, the, the easy answer to your question here, it's all of the duties that don't actually occur while I'm making music with the musicians on the podium, from fundraising to selecting repertoire and everything I said.

And you're correct. The ISO has a robust season, um, I think, you know, over a $30 million budget. The ICO is about a million-dollar budget. And I, uh, I'm beginning my 11th season there now, and I think that, um, you know, the vision that we set out on very early in my tenure has established, uh, continued to establish the ICO as, you know, bonafide professional orchestra, uh, in Central Indiana. And we've done that by, you know, judiciously selecting repertoire that the ISO typically wouldn't touch, uh, a lot of new music, a lot of new commissions and consortiums, uh, for the small orchestra. Um, we've continued an annual silent movie, which you were part of, and although Frankenstein is not a silent movie, that was our first talking movie. Uh, that's one of our most popular endeavors. Of course, we have our healthy supply of Mozart, Beethoven, and Haydn, but it's really, I think, the new music that we play which has helped distinguish us. It's, uh, garnered us, um, you know, multiple publications in Symphony magazine, a regional Emmy Award for a major work by our then-composer-in-residence James Aikman. Uh, and then all of these, uh, these, uh, collaborations that we have with local organizations—and not just arts organizations, but the American Pianists Awards, the Opera, the Chorus obviously, the Children's Choir, the ACLU. We've worked with the city of Indianapolis, the Sister Cities program. So, we're actively courting, uh, new entities in Central Indiana, uh, to work together, however that might be. Our longest ongoing partnership is with Dance Kaleidoscope, a marvelous modern dance troupe. Every other year, uh, the orchestra's on stage, the dancers are out on stage in front of us. And it's these kinds of collaborations which have brought in new audiences for us, and I think kept our programming so vibrant. So, we, you know, we have about a 10-week season compared to the ISO's 42-plus, 46, maybe it is, um, but we're doing very different programming, not touching those John Williams movie scores, uh, you know, we're not doing Mahler obviously, but we're doing repertoire that just either isn't, has not been programmed in Indianapolis or, you know, what if it was, it was very rare.

I look for, uh, established friendships, first and foremost. Um, I don't exactly recall how you and I came in touch for Frankenstein, but we hit it off immediately. And I find that, you know, when you have a, a, a relationship, a friendship, uh, with somebody prior to having scores emailed to you or uh, being shipped, if anybody even does that anymore now, um, you have extra cause to look a little bit deeper into that music, because it's, you know, let's be honest. I get at least, um, you know, 10, maybe sometimes 20 scores, uh, within the span of a week for, uh, people that from managers, from composers online, from Facebook, Instagram, etc., etc. It's hard to look at everything. Uh, but I also kind of follow the national trends, of course, to see whose music is really getting talked about, uh, whose music is exciting audiences or musicians, and I take recommendations, of course, from my colleagues. Um, but uh, I think it's just really important for, particularly young composers, uh, to build relationships with musicians and with conductors, because if your music is presented in a place of friendship, it's much easier to start conversations about how we can work together than if you're just, you know, soliciting or mailing out, uh, scores with really no hope of a reply. So, um, that's, that's where I start from. But I've always been surprised. There'll be a score that comes along, somebody recommends to me a composer I might not know, uh, and then I'm just blown away. And we just all have a limited amount of time in our lives. Uh, I try to go thoroughly, you know, as best I can through everything that kind of comes across my computer screen or across my desk. Uh, but it's difficult. So, I cherish the relationships we've established, and obviously talking to you, we have great projects that have emerged from that original Frankenstein performance in Indianapolis. So, uh, I think it's important to maintain relationships.

It's essential for a conductor, I think, to have that early process in their career where they can really cut their teeth, they can get the experience that they need, and do it in an environment which is relatively safe. I mean, it's there's a lot of pressure, uh, being on the podium, and particularly if you don't have the skill set, either the emotional skill set or the musical skill set, to deal with that kind of pressure, you can make a lot of mistakes, and and mistakes are important to make, it's part of the growth process. Um, but I find that the, the conducting profession now has changed considerably from when I came in. I think I was part of that early, uh, stage in the early 2000s when David Zinman took over Aspen, had a larger conducting program modeled after the Pierre Monteux school where he studied with Monteux, and the idea that you play in the orchestra and then you have an opportunity to go stand on the box and, you know, you get your 10–15 minutes. Uh, since that time, conducting programs have proliferated, not only in the States here, but in Europe, um, and I find that it's just now a career where there's so much competition, so many people eager to enter the field, that we've kind of lost some sense of understanding about, you know, what really is required of you, and what kind of work needs to go into it. And, because you can come from anywhere, as you know. Uh, you could be a composer and become a conductor, you could be a violinist like myself and become a conductor, uh, piano or or trumpet or any instrument, so there's not, you know, one route to get to the box, but the understanding of the repertoire, um, the the building blocks that make up great orchestral music, the history, the lineage, etc., etc. I just feel like many people are are being fast-tracked now, you know, wanting to jump in and just do their Bruckner. But, you know, you don't get to do Bruckner right away, or Mahler, or, you know, if you more than likely, if you're starting off in this country, you're starting off like I did, as an assistant conductor with a smaller orchestra, moving up to a bigger orchestra, and then eventually getting your first music directorship, usually a smaller orchestra again, and then working your way up. Um, but, you know, that mentorship that you referred to, particularly the seven years that I worked with JoAnn Falletta allowed me the opportunity to learn the repertoire—not just studying, but actually conducting it, all the Beethoven symphonies, for example—uh, to watch and observe JoAnn and guest conductors in rehearsal. I got great advice early on: when you're covering, imagine what you would say whenever the guest conductor stops. I mean, imagine what it is that you would address in the orchestra and see if that's what the guest conductor or JoAnn Falletta, um, you know, chooses to to to start with. And so, the observing process is is paramount, I think, for a conductor to learn how to talk to an orchestra, to build trust, relationships, etc., so you don't make the mistakes that you can't recover from, uh, you know, overbooking yourself because you have opportunity, but then making mistakes and not getting invited back, for example, or not knowing how to write an education concert because that's going to be crucial for you to get an assistant conductor position. So, you know, there's really not one thing that I can focus on except to take your time and to make sure that you're really making the best out of every opportunity that you have when you're on the podium, even if it is an education concert and you feel like you should be doing something bigger. There are things that you can take away from all of those experiences, and it's ultimately a process where we never stop learning. So, I'm grateful that JoAnn provided me so many of those building blocks that I could take with us.

That's right.

That's right. In fact, both of my degrees, Michael, are in, uh, violin performance. The second degree, my master's degree, I actually worked with, uh, Philip Ruder, marvelous musician. He was the concertmaster of Cincinnati Symphony for 25 years, Dallas before that, and before that, his very first job was with the old New Orleans Symphony, uh, before it it shuttered, and now it's the, you know, the orchestra which I conduct in its different iteration. So, his, um, you know, approach to teaching me was the excerpts which we worked on, and I was fully prepared to, you know, take an orchestral audition. I just decided that, you know, at the time I was conducting, whatever audition I won first is what I would become. And it turns out my very first audition was conducting with Akron Symphony on in Ohio, and I became a conductor. But I fervently believe to this day that without having studied and played in an orchestra, my conducting would be forever altered. I mean, I come from every piece that I conduct from the the the standpoint of: what's it like for that last-chair first violin who's so far removed from the other side of the orchestra that they might not hear the basses, for example? And so, I think it's very important to continue to possess a chamber music mindset when you conduct, you know, to be clear, to breathe with the ensemble, to to listen to what you're getting back, to have that sense of, you know, are you with the music when you're conducting or are you conducting, you know, around the music, in other words. We talked about this, we're going getting inside the the sound of it, and it's not always easy to do. But you do if you remember what it's like from the musician's perspective, and the violin playing, you know, it's 65 what percent of the orchestra, 60–65% of the orchestra is a stringed instrument, and I'm grateful that I know as a player all of the sounds and colors and and, you know, with what string you're playing on, and where the bow is, etc. It's so important, even if you're not really a string player, to have an understanding of stringed instruments, so it's transformed my conducting and I'm grateful for that.

Uh, it depends. On occasion, I'm I'm convinced by it. I mean, I have markings from my old teacher, I have markings from, you know, the archives that you can find online with the great orchestras and to go through, you know, the standard repertoire and just compare the bowings with it. And then, you know, you listen to these great legacy recordings of it, and you try to think, "All right, are they playing," because you can only hear it, "are they playing down-bow or up-bow there with that?" You know, I'm not convinced. There are some things that I just, you know, as a a period instrument enthusiast, I'm not a total purist, I don't do it on gut strings and short, you know, neck and and uh, the old Baroque bows.

Yeah, exactly. We take some, some elements out of that in the lightness and transparency, tempi, and there are certain bow strokes which you just have to have from that period, so, you know, it's an always an argument. And I always rely on our concertmasters. Even though I'm a string player, there are only some things which I'll do bowings for, which is usually the Viennese classics and Baroque repertoire. I leave the rest to our capable concertmasters who do marvelous work because I want them to have uh, their buy-in on, you know, the because they're in charge of the string section. You mentioned London, that's why they're called the leader over there, and not the concertmaster, because they really are the leader of the orchestra.

Yeah, I love it, and I'm terrified to ever implement it, you know. The only time I use it is if, you know, um, a summer concert, where you have one rehearsal and it's called festival bowing. Like, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, okay, well, it's not as tidy as the normal subscription series, but I'm reminded of the movie you might have seen, whether, you know, you like the movie or not, Tár with Cate Blanchett where she's talking about Mahler, and how did you get such a ferocious sound? Well, you know, free bowing, you got to keep them out of the weeds, because it is difficult to get oriented if you're, you know, watching a sea of people in front of you all going the wrong direction. We want to conform as string players, especially if you're sitting in the back, you are always looking for changes, you know, the bowings that come from the front desk, so, it's a way of saying to your, your, um, your question, I think it really depends on the repertoire. And some places absolutely call for it, if you have to get this huge sound on the G string, just change as needed to maintain that sound, and, you know, other places like a Haydn symphony, absolutely not.

Mm-hmm.

I absolutely do. I think it's an invaluable tool. Uh, but like you said, you don't get up on the box unless you have thoroughly studied the score—harmonic analysis, put your bowings in, phrase, etc., etc. But, you know, especially in this day and age, I mean it's been the case for years now, that all of this is available with a couple clicks on YouTube, it's all available. And I, so, it'd be foolish not to go through and then listen to, you know, from Karajan to Bernstein—not necessary for Beethoven—but uh, and then, the historically informed practices, uh, to to see the differences. I mean, not just timings, but articulations, textures, um, and that's the thing is that I've changed my mind so many times about how I approach this repertoire. I used to go, you know, "Well, faster and lighter is great for for Beethoven," but then you go back and, you know, you can listen to some of these marvelous recordings from the Berlin Philharmonic that just convince you otherwise, that you want that depth and that, you know, heaviness in the reper—in the repertoire. So, I think we're entitled to change our minds about it. All I do is I throw my score away, buy another Bärenreiter score, and start all over again. And I think that's a refreshing process, you know, of making this music seem new again. Because if you just grab the same old score off the the shelf and approach it the same way you did two years ago when you last did it, then I think it becomes very stagnant and almost like we're on autopilot with it. So, you know, that's why some of these composers did record the Beethoven cycles two, three times because they changed their minds about it. Not all of them were successful, but I think it is important that you come later in your studying process to the recordings, you don't begin the studying process with the recordings, but they're a nice tool to have later on.

I love the honesty. Because that's the truth.

No, I've not worked with Tim, but I've got the greatest resource for your concerto, I've got you, and uh, and and that's the great thing about living composers is that you can ask those questions, you know, "This transition didn't quite seem to work for me, would you mind if I take it a little slower here?" Or whatever the case, you know, may be, you can try different things because there is no legacy, as you mentioned, it's never been, uh, performed live and so, you know, we're discovering this together. Concerto accompaniment, particularly though, I I am a much more, uh, deferential conductor, uh, when it comes to accompaniment. I mean, the story about Bernstein is famous, but I just kind of roll my eyes, typical Lenny, like just, you know, you can hire a different soloist the next time you do a piece like that if it's, you know, just didn't feel comfortable, but you have a very important job when you're, you know, uh, conducting concerti or solo works like that compared to a symphony or, you know, an or—an orchestra-only piece, is that you do have to be, you have to align the orchestra with the soloist, and you have to give the soloist the freedom to, you know, to take the rubato where they want to or to take the chances where they want to so that they're not just phoning it in the same way that they did from the rehearsal to the the concert. And it's more challenging, obviously, with new music because there's less known, you know. Uh, we're we're looking at our scores more because chances that it's memorized are probably next to nothing, you know, you don't want to take those chances, so there's a little bit more pressure, I would say, with new works like that, just because it's not as familiar, it's the first time out. And we always gain so much from doing the repertoire the third, the fifth, the 12th time in this case, so, um, but I look forward to that challenge because, you know, doing new music is a love for me, but particularly the new concerto because I think it it allows now another part of this, uh, cycle of life to to shine, which is the the soloist who, you know, with a soloist like Tim, he'll take the piece with him. And there's much more likelihood I find with concerto that, you know, if you have a powerful advocate in the soloist, that those pieces will be programmed again.

He's amazing.

That's right.

Mm-hmm. Old Toscanini, you know, championed faster tempi, I think, than many of his col—his, his peers at that time, you know, where things were stodgy and a little slow. And when things are slow, then they have a different sen—sense of gravity, and it's going to affect where you breathe. You know, to your point about stringed instruments, I, you know, have to tell myself and when I'm playing chamber music, the the breath is so critical, because we can take our breath wherever we want to. Now, we obviously start pieces with a breath, but that breath tells you, you know, the tempo, the character, etc., etc., but once we're in there, I mean, the bow changes, we don't have to breathe with every bow change the way that a a oboist or a singer has to, you know, breathe with the phrasing or where can they try to get the breath in in those cases. So, um, I've heard, you know, conductors describe it, you know, you're you're playing on the breath or, you know, with the breath, so, um, that breath, breathing thing is so important because it gives you so much of the feel of things. But, you know, the tempo is obviously so critical with this is, and it affects the the feel of the music, the textures of it. Uh, personal choices that are in there. The chamber music aspect, if you're doing a Mozart string quartet, well, you're one of four. And so, you're going to have to try to work collaboratively to get to a consensus about how you want to approach this. And if you're the first violinist in the Mozart quartet, obviously, you know, your part is much much, uh, not important, but it's it's more prominent, you know, with melodies, etc., etc. So, um, I, I like, I miss that aspect of chamber music, and it's why I cha—I cherish it every, every opportunity I do have it, because it is, again, very collaborative. It is, you know, stop, discuss, hopefully you can remain on good terms with each other and not, you know, insult each other when you're, you know, trying to fix something, whether it's intonation or phrasing, etc., etc. But, you know, the phrasing thing is so unique, and it's, so, it's so difficult to explain to non-musicians, because, well, the notes are right there, right? Uh, not necessarily. Where are we going? Music is always going somewhere, or it's coming from somewhere, very rarely, and it's deliberate when it is, as it's static, not moving, and and, and not leading us somewhere. So, that, that fluctuation in tempo, I love those old recordings where there was a fluid pulse. I think that goes back to Wagner where, you know, there is a sense of, you know, never a consistent beat, that it was always kind of leading us somewhere. And the older I get, the more I'm kind of gravitating towards that, because I was really infatuated with that performance practice where things were fast and just, you know, a whirlwind. But I'm appreciating more and more what, you know, the old guard did when they allowed the music to breathe a little bit more, and, you know, people will always argue, Michael, about, uh, Mozart phrasing and Mozart textures and, and diction and those kinds of things. It's, that's part of the greatness of what we do is that there are so many different interpretations that are valid.

Mm-hmm.

Well, it's interesting that you, you ask, I mean, I have Mozart 39 coming up, uh, in January. So, you know, like 40, it's one great one that they come back, but this is the same point that, you know, I make about 40, which I, I adore and also conduct whenever I can. Um, you know, the one way that you can do this is to grab the orchestra parts ahead of time, and with your librarian, put in anything that you think is essential for the musicians to know, tenuti over quarter notes so that you, they know not to, uh, shortchange, uh, anything. Um, any, you know, we did this, uh, working with some Baroque, uh, specialists, you know, indications on where you want notes to swell, or what they call whale tones, if you want to, the indications for how much vibrato to use. I mean, those are all, you know, maybe micromanaging to some extent, but it saves you infinite amount of time in rehearsal, as you know. So, so, so critical with that. And then let's not forget, you know, which sometimes we do when we're conducting, is that it's so important to show the musicians. A simple gesture of, you know, of, of growth in sound, diminuendo, or, you know, opening your hands up as opposed down, that can create different colors in the orchestra, and it's, you know, you have to remember the the kind of tension that you carry or release in your body can be transferred to the musicians, if they're watching you grimace. So, I'm always reminding myself of this, because I forget these things after a while. I'm so focused on what I'm hearing, that I'm not focused on what they're seeing. And so, you can like again, either show it or you can put it in there, in their in their parts, but either way, you're going to have to mold this sound, and I always tell younger conductors, particularly, be accepting to what comes back at you, because you might find it actually is much nicer than what you were thinking, you know, might have worked. That's the great part of making music with so many great professionals is that they might surprise you and play it on their own in such a way like you would never imagine. And I'll say that, that happened in Salzburg. I was there in 2006 just to observe, you know, the great orchestras, and it was the Mozart year in 2006, the Vienna Philharmonic played everything that Mozart wrote, and I was astounded by no matter who stood up there on the podium, that they played this symphony like it had already been rehearsed a hundred times, which it has for them, let's be honest. They, they self-police themselves in a way that was just transcendental.

[Laughs]

But they're pretty good at the Mozarts and the Beethovens.

Oh, it's interesting. I just, um, you know, what is it? They tell God your plans and, you know, see what comes back. I, I would never have imagined, honestly, that, uh, my life would have taken me here, all the opportunities. I mean, for a conductor, there are so many challenges, so many moments where you just find like, it's just not going to work out, there's too much competition, it's just, and some door is always open and you just have to be ready to seize it. But um, you know, I'm, I'm open to any possibilities going forward. I love the collegial, uh, process of making music with great people, great musicians, uh, and that's what I cherish wherever I've been. And it's important for conductors to know, you know, not to overstay your welcome, that it's time to grow, you know, for the, the orchestra to grow with somebody else, and for you to grow with somebody else. So, I don't know. I know that my family and I enjoy now our lives here in New Orleans. I'm appreciative for every month that I get back to Indianapolis to make music with those great people. I'm artistic advisor over in Lafayette, uh, Louisiana for an orchestra there now, so I'm spending time with them. Um, so as long as I can continue to make music with great people, great musicians, and to, to, to perform this great variety of living composers as well as the standard repertoire, I'm happy with wherever I am.

It's marvelous. I've spent time with both scores, but I'm loving Zoomies. It's, it's terrific. The violin concerto is extraordinary, too. It's going to be a real treat for us.

Um, hum, very true.

Great talking to you, Michael, as always.