The Nat Towsen "Tight Five"

Uh, no.

I'm sorry, is this the interview right now?

It's Nat Towsen.

Nat Towsen. Yeah, no D at the end. Not Townsend.

That, yes. Towsen is correct. Thank you.

The Moon is a comedy variety show, much in a sort of televised variety traditions of the 50s and 70s, sort of like The Muppet Show for a slightly more recent reference. And it's a comedy variety show with a storyline that ties the whole thing together.

Sort of. But just forget I said that.

That is my other thing that I've written in my notes.

It's also a variety show. It's in the East Village at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre East. And it's sort of a downtown New York culture-themed variety show.

Well, I tour. I try to go to as many cities as possible. I'm here in L.A. for the week to take a few meetings, try a few things out. I'm not promising anything. I do have a meeting I can't talk about. But I can't tell you why I can't talk about it.

I cannot say... I apologize. I can't say for sure whether or not it is happening. I actually signed a nondisclosure agreement, so I shouldn't actually say whether or not I do have a meeting that I can't talk about. So I actually... If we could edit this part out, that would be great.

Well, I really appreciate you taking it out. And thank you for the rubbing alcohol, too.

I appreciate the old shirt as well.

Ooh, cranberry juice, that would fix my UTI as well.

That's true, that's true, and you are a stand-up comedian.

About 10 years, Dan.

I would like to think that I was good before now, but...

About three days ago. Take that, Louis C.K. We've never met, but he can take it if you're listening, Louis.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, fuck you, Louis C.K.

Okay.

Yeah, the tight five. In the business it's a tight five. It used to be called the Carson Five. Now some call it the Letterman Five or the Late Night Set.

Sure. The Kimmel Five.

I might have a meeting later. I can't say. I can't say. I can't say. I'm sorry. Non-disclosure agreement. Thank you very much.

Exactly. That's your tight five. That's what we're going to work on today.

Oh, absolutely. Well, you want to start out with fake crowd work because the crowd's not actually going to respond to you. If you're in a late night show, what you'll notice is when they tape it, it looks like the crowd's directly in front of the desk, in front of the comedian. They're about a football field away.

Inside of a glass box, yes. And so when you do crowd work, you pick out an imaginary audience member. So you're going to, you know, there's a fat guy who's too enthusiastic. And you go, except for this guy. And everyone goes, ah, this guy. Those laughs come later.

Yeah, that's usually a good way to start. You want to start with, yeah, with a, you want to joke that is a fake reaction to however the audience reacted to your name, regardless of what that reaction is. And it'll be applause because if it isn't, they're just going to add applause.

So you just assume, you know, you say you're too kind or something. You know, you're like, you know, you people are like, and then you pick something that's in the news. Like, I don't know.

Exactly, yeah. But, you know, you guys are like, you know, you guys are like insurgents or something. You guys are like. And everyone goes, he knows what's going on. This guy, thank you very much. Syria. Drone warfare. That's good, that's good. You guys are, or if they don't clap enough, you guys are quieter than a Predator drone or something like that. People are like, I read about that. And then they laugh because they want to seem informed.

Well, you gotta have your closer, first of all.

That is a show with Kyra Sedgwick, if I'm not mistaken.

It is also the final joke, the ultimate joke of any stand-up set. Is known as your closer, and the bit that you want to be your closer in a set where there's stakes and not, in one where you're trying out new material, the bit that's your closer is one that you know is gonna, it's the haymaker, it's gonna, it hits every time, you get a huge reaction. Uh, it's not too racist, it's not too political, because you know, who knows who's in the crowd, right? If you need to guarantee results you go middle of the road.

And then everyone laughs because they know they're supposed to.

That's usually better for like your... Something in the middle? Somewhere in the middle or once you've done your crowd work, topical, something offensive. And then everyone goes, wait a minute. I don't know if I should have just applauded this guy. And then you go, but here's what I really mean. And they go, he knows what's going on.

Exactly, exactly. So you could be like, um, you know, you'd be like, uh, how about that Paula Deen. Uh-huh. I agree with her. And then everyone goes, oh. And then you go, uh, butter is delicious. And they go, oh, he thought he was talking about the whole racism thing. And they're sitting there by themselves, I didn't realize it, but yes, I also agree with Paula Deen about her stance about butter, and maybe if she's right about butter she might be right about having a plantation wedding.

Indeed. It's like neuro-linguistic programming, conversational hypnosis. Making America just a little bit worse, I think. That's essentially the goal of late-night television at the very least, yes. To keep couples from making love to each other and fall asleep.

Right. Well, it's a funny story. Otherwise, I wouldn't be telling it to you.

Exactly. You don't even feel your hand on the other person. You wake up, the TV's on, The View or something.

Exactly. Great. A tight five.

Right. Acknowledgement of a current event. And then you're going to want, then you got your offensive joke with a reinterpretation. You got your reinterpretation. And all of a sudden the audience thought you lost them, but now they're on your side. Your middle joke should be something a little longer, maybe a two-minute bit about something.

Well, you've got to have punchlines along the way. In a club or in a longer set, you can go maybe a minute without getting a laugh, but on late-night television, you've got to get a laugh every 10 or 15 seconds, otherwise they think you're messing up. Because it's TV, people could be tuning in in the middle of your set, and if they can't jump in, if you've got a minute-long setup and they missed the first sentence.

Right, exactly. I might as well, or watch like Kimmel or something.

Exactly, exactly. So your middle joke, you still want to keep it tight, but that's where you put like, that's your favorite. You put your, the joke that you love might not be the one that always gets the biggest laugh. It's not your closer. It's a little bit more your identity. Stick that one there in the middle.

All right. And they go, oh, this guy's smart. He's clever. I'm not sure I agree with him. And then in comes the closer. You knock him dead. No matter how you do, the host is going to walk over and shake your hand. He might whisper something racist in your ear.

It depends on what you said during your set. It depends on whether or not he actually liked you. And he'll thank you. And then probably get your credit wrong or something and wave to the audience. And then you wave and shake his hand regardless of how it went.

Yeah, like if you're promoting something, you bring a clip.

Uh-huh.

I didn't read that, but it makes complete sense.

No, no, it was beforehand, during the audition.

Yeah, he changed the game. He brought marmalade.

Sure. Here's like a little clever. Like, you know, you want to keep your jokes. I tend to have long jokes, and I put in, try to pepper in multiple laugh lines, which is what you call a punchline that's not at the end of the joke. It's a little line that gets a laugh, but it's not the point of the joke, right? So I try to pepper those in along the way. But if I'm doing a tight five, I try to, you know, what you really want is a little clever set-up punchline joke. So I have a joke that's like, you know, I went to, I was in a fraternity at art school. I was in an absurdist fraternity. But I had to leave because I kept getting drunk at parties, blacking out, and waking up the next morning with faces drawn all over my dick.

Exactly. I try to raise the level of discourse with that joke is what I'm trying to do. Because not only is it a dick joke, but it's a thinker. It's an art joke.

No, no, of course. I mean, what it is, it's an art joke wrapped in a dick joke wrapped in an enigma inside of a riddle.

Yes, the butter sauce when you get at the Cheesecake Factory sometimes.

Oh, oh, oh, it's, it's simple. There's only one way to do crowd work.

It's universally agreed upon. It's, uh, you point at someone. Yeah. And then you know they're scared of you, um, because they're probably not used to speaking in public and they know you're going to speak to them so you already have the upper hand. Helps if they're fat. And then you point at them and you say what's your name, and then they say their name. If they go uh, you go, you say uh, what kind of name is that. And if they, if they, if they don't hesitate, which almost never happens, uh, they say their name, you say where are you from, and if they say uh, you go I've never heard of that place, and then everyone likes it. It's good. It's good. It's, uh, it works literally every time.

Uh-huh. What was it?

I am. I've been thinking about it for a long time. And I've been working on a set.

Oh, absolutely. You can give me the whole thing at once, or we can go beat by beat, and we can go back and break it down. Whatever simulates a performance environment for you the best, I'll listen, and then we can go back, and I'll do my best to think and take notes.

Good start.

No, no, please.

Thank you.

Good.

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'm a racist too.

That's good. But you're past 30 seconds. You've got to move into the first bit. We're already behind time. We're already behind time.

All right. Good. That's his name. You heard of him.

Wait for the laugh. Is that the setup or is that the, is that just you just, uh, is that crowd work?

Okay, good. Keep going to the first joke. First, moving on to the joke.

All right. Okay. Was that the first joke?

Okay, good. Keep going. I'll give you feedback on that one as we, just let's keep the time.

I guess. Yeah. It's in the water.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do a punchline.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes hip audiences will laugh at a premise because they know where you're going. They know about the fluoride. That's just as good. But you know what? Let's take it back to 2:30. Go ahead.

You don't brush your teeth?

Are we still in a bit right now?

So is that, um, did you make that up or is that, is that, is that true?

Oh, okay. It's, the context made it okay. Yeah. Let's, um, do you really not brush your teeth? Let's keep going.

Okay, now I, I'll shoot.

Are teeth alive?

All right, and that's five minutes.

Well, you can't expect the audience to ask questions because, like I said, they're 100 meters away in a glass box.

So you're going to have to say, you're probably wondering, am I doing a bit here or do I really brush my teeth? I really don't brush my teeth. And then you're going to need a joke and a punchline.

Sure. Or, yeah, those do involve some of the same words. You know what they say about a guy with a dead tooth? Sometimes he lets you do all the talking.

You want to go dark, you could be like, my mouth is like my soul, dead inside.

Like Syria. Tie it back to your open. Just like Syria. Just like Barack Obama. Is there a connection?

Um, that part's true. You want to fact check your jokes. Barack Obama's from Hawaii.

Okay. Uh, that's interesting. Although have you looked at it, the face on Mars?

I thought that that was like a, I don't know, a pre-science concept? Is that a good way of putting that? Pre-science? Like pre-telescopes? They thought there was a face on Mars?

Oh, right, right. A face on Mars. It didn't actually look like a face when they looked at it the other direction for a while. The man on the moon. I feel like... Should I change it to the man on the moon?

Yeah, okay. That's one option that you have. Let's talk about what was the first joke, now that we're going backwards. Or was all that Obama leading up to the running part?

Right, well, yeah, of course. And then you had... What was after that? Syria?

Oh, yeah, that's always good. Yeah, that was a little good riff there, but you've got to watch out. You want your riffing at the beginning of your late-night set to be as prescribed and artificial as possible. Because if it's natural, that's the worst thing that you can put on television. People hate honesty. It makes them feel uncomfortable.

They'd rather you were CGI, and if you can't be CGI, uh, and we don't have the budget for that, you can't be CGI. You know, late night shows are on four or five nights a week.

Uh, they don't have a CGI budget. If you can't be an animated person, the next best thing you can do is be artificial in your heart. And so people don't want to hear someone thinking of ideas on the spot because it makes them uncomfortable. Why is this guy thinking? I don't want to think. He's challenging me. Why can't I do that? If he's just making it up, I'm looking at him, why can't I make things up? Why am I, you know, still working for the, the Bath Fitter, fitting bathtubs over older bathtubs.

Why am I doing that? Exactly. Why, why am I, you know, why when I look my son in the eyes do, do I see just everything I hate.

Right, exactly. And that's why you want to keep your riffing short and artificial.

Because otherwise you're gonna, you're gonna, the worst thing you can do on your late night set is blow the light.

Usually, but in the case of a late night set, what you, what it means is to go past, uh, the light is, uh, usually literally a light, sometimes red, sometimes interestingly enough though it's green.

And I know, uh, which you would think means go, but it really means go for another minute and then stop, but they'll put the light on again in another minute. It's not going to be red. It's still going to be green. If it was green the first time it's going to be green again.

Exactly. But then you see it again. I got another minute.

Right. Okay. But now we're on seven minutes and you're, right, five minutes set. You just blew the light.

There you go. See you just proved my point. See that, that's, that's a, that's a rookie mistake I would have made.

So you don't want to blow the light, and if your riffing unfortunately goes over, right, uh, you're gonna cut into your haymaker, your closer. Right. You know that, your, your solid joke that you know everyone's gonna, you know, really brings the house down. That's gonna be what people are quoting at the water cooler tomorrow. Right. You know, you want your water cooler joke. You want to give your water cooler joke some space. All right. So here, and if you go on too long about, you know, just humiliate one fat person and then move on. Okay. Because if you humiliate one guy, everyone else is at ease because they're like, oh, he's not going to pick on me. Even the audience at home is like, oh, someone out there is fatter than me.

Some guy doesn't know how to talk when people talk to him. I feel that way secretly, but I'm glad that I'm not the one being made fun of for it. So you just humiliate one guy, get it out of the way. Everyone else is at ease. That guy, well, probably has to make some phone calls. We'll get him a bottle of champagne.

Sure, you know, there's probably a goodie bag under his seat with a mug with the name of the show on it. He'll be fine.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's hear the closer.

Yeah, you can just go right in to remember that. You're already on stage. You don't have to say, hey, everybody.

Okay, but.

Oh, that's okay. It's my version of get 'er done.

Okay, that's, that's, are you saying that to me right now or are you starting the joke?

Oh, sorry. Okay, it's okay. Don't worry about it. It's all right. It's all right.

I do. I understand. I, I see the problem.

All right, go for it.

All right. That's pretty good. I think, first of all, let's just bring it into the now, okay?

So it's like, we know, you know.

Sure. I'm sure that the Hanes commercial was three years ago when you wrote this joke.

But let's make all jokes happen. This is an important rule about stand-up. Let's make all the jokes be present, okay? So instead of saying a few years ago I was walking in my neighborhood, just I was walking in my neighborhood the other day, unless there's a real reason. I was watching a VHS tape of the 2010 NBA Finals and I saw a commercial.

We're going to just skip the... But what if they don't?

Sure, that also works.

Yeah. I guess I can picture that. What kind of font are we thinking about here?

Yeah, I mean, that's an option. You definitely have that as an option. There are also other options, but the one that you described does exist.

Yeah, that's, wow, yeah. You know, these are all things I hadn't thought of.

Yeah, it's a very popular font, especially in German institutional buildings.

That's true. It's contextual continuity is what they call that.

Sure. It's your face?

Okay. Yeah, that'll tie in nicely.

Over or under the shirt?

Please tell me it's over the shirt.

You'll actually have a Hitler mustache? The T-shirt. Under which? That you're wearing under the Michael Jordan jersey?

Okay, so I'm sorry. I'm sorry. On the T-shirt.

Okay, so this is more of a bust is what we're saying.

We can see like some torso involved here. Like maybe like a pecs up kind of crop.

Okay. That would actually be on the back. So you'd have to be wearing a Jordan jersey backwards for that to work.

Oh, okay, okay. Like a Playboy model.

So it's gonna be you.

With a Hitler mustache. Michael Jordan jersey. I feel like the Michael Jordan jersey is gonna be an overlooked detail on this t-shirt.

So it's your face in black and white with a Hitler mustache. Like historical.

Right underneath.

Yes.

Yeah. Over the internet.

Simple as that. Okay. All right, that's interesting. Um, no one else has that yet, I don't know. Simple as that. It sounds like that might be like Circuit City's. Uh, that's not really a business anymore though, is it, Circuit City.

All right. I, you might want to check to see if the trademark on that has expired first, but let's, let's take it for a run.

Yeah, okay. Well, hold on. Let's take it back for a second. I want you to think of a joke. I'm going to be your audience member.

You're going to. I want you to. You know what? Let's do it this way. I'm going to be. Who's your favorite late night host?

Sure. I'll be Daniel Tosh. And you. I'm going to bring you on.

So I'm going to pretend that I have an internet video. Yes. No. Okay, let's take it back. I'm Johnny Carson. And you are like Garry Shandling, all right? But you're you instead. I'm going to bring you on.

I'm not dead.

And you're going to come on, skip the crowd work, just for the sake of this exercise. Of course, you don't want to skip the artificial crowd work when you're on television.

For the sake of this exercise, why don't you, I'm going to bring you on. You're gonna come on, you're gonna go launch right into your first joke. Okay. I want to hear both catchphrases. I want to hear a setup. I want to hear catchphrase, setup, punchline, catchphrase. Maybe like a thank you or something like that to the audience. Let's try and run that whole thing and see if we can put these catchphrases into action. Because you are going to need, you're right, you're going to need something to put on t-shirts, key chains, coffee mugs, uh, promotional frisbees, Christmas cards, Valentine's Day cards, promotional golf balls, little pens with a paper scroll that comes out with maybe a picture of your face on and a catchphrase, sunglasses with little mirrors on the inside so you can look over your shoulder, that would be a good tie in with looking over the shoulder t-shirt, little fake Hitler mustaches, and you've got sunglasses on.

Yeah, like a little clip on, hit the bottom of the nose, it says hey everybody across the front, it says it on the mustache.

So let's take this set from the beginning. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, I'm Daniel Tosh and I approve of raping this next comic. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Dan Rodandan.

All right. I think you're ready to tape it. I think all you need to do is really time it, time it out in the mirror. Make sure to pause for laughs because you're going to get laughs whether or not you deserve them. Make that bit five minutes.

You're going to want to work on your prepared crowd work. You're going to want to, like I said, time it out in the mirror. Add an extra five to ten seconds after every joke. Just run it as many times. Make sure you have it memorized. Completely rewrite everything. Spend five years working in the clubs developing better material. Put it all on tape and send it out to a booker.

Dan, it's been a pleasure. I love you. Thanks for having me.